Mr. Stile (of Stile Project) gets in a little trouble... Options

[Flatulence]

I don't know how many Stile Project readers we have here, or how many of you even know about it.... but, basically, the Stile Project is a shock site full of text, images, and movies of death, destruction, pornography, and recently, the consumption of animals.

Stile recently posted a movie clip of a kitten being beaten to death, stir fried, and then eaten. The result was an uproar amongst groups like PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals - peta.org), and even amongst regular Stile Project viewers.

After you look through the various links below, I'd like to know what you think about the whole situation. Note that I'm not asking for an anti-Stile lecture, I'm just wondering if you think Peta has a case, if Stile was in violation of Clinton's law concerning animal cruelty movies, and if you watched the clip, if you were deeply offended by it.

Wired wrote a great article about what happened and the different groups' responses. That can be found here: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46315,00.html

Stile's view of the whole situation can be found here: http://www.stileproject.com/wired.html


***WARNING****
For those of you who are actually interested, the video clip in question can be found here. Allow me to point out that it is quite gruesome and graphic. View at your own risk: http://static.stileproject.com/video/kitty.mpg

[edit]NOTE: to view the clip, you actually have to copy the url and paste it into your little url thingy. Just clicking the link doesn't work....[/edit]

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In... my.... self righteous suicide
I.... cry.... when angels deserve to die!
| AIM: CrazyJ617 | B-net: Flatulence187 | Pilot File Trade Network | Test Your Reflexes |

[This message has been edited by Flatulence (edited 08-29-2001).]

[roostersw]

I make a note on this subject to not follow Moki's advice to never click on any Stile link, but instead anything that you actually will admit to being gruesome I shun.

But does this movie depict actual animal cruelty?

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It is not fear that will destroy you, but the absence of it.
EVEA Webstory Board -- roostermac.net
My fave 'THEY' rendering : <rooster> heh, pringles can't make more pornographic RPGs

[Flatulence]

Originally posted by roostersw:

But does this movie depict actual animal cruelty?

You could watch it....



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In... my.... self righteous suicide
I.... cry.... when angels deserve to die!
| AIM: CrazyJ617 | B-net: Flatulence187 | Pilot File Trade Network | Test Your Reflexes |

[PyroQuake]

/me watches the clip


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J00 ph33r the Spoooooooon™ Cruiser! j00 ph33r it! Muahahahahahahaha!
/me runs....

[This message has been edited by PyroQuake (edited 08-29-2001).]

[scope]

mistaken post....delete this....
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-scope
Carpe Aptenodytes! (Seize the Penguins!)
I feel like a genocidal maniac when emacs asks me if I want to kill 10789 characters.
Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11

[This message has been edited by scope (edited 08-29-2001).]

[Pikeman]

**** stile.

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"My brother-in-law died. He was a karate expert, then he joined the army. The first time he saluted, he killed himself." - Henny Youngman
Board Game, Where the real webboard fun happens......

[Myriad]

I watched that clip after I, againsy my better judgement, followed a link posted on #ev3. I was disturbed a bit, but not horribly shocked. Stile has a good defense, as he did not make the video, and that in Asia this is much more acceptable. I don't think Stile deserves all the crap he is getting.

Besides, I never liked PETA anyway. They're all a bit too radical for me, plus they managed to close a McDonald's near my street by having some guy in a pig suit dance on the roof. Damn PETA. This whole thing about keeping people from depicting animal cruelty doesn't sit right with me. I think that it ends up on the wrong side of the first ammendment, and I'm all for free speech 'til it hurts.

I like this quote from Stile:

I never get hate mail when posting images of dead people

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Every drop bear I see drives me closer to the edge

[This message has been edited by Myriad (edited 08-29-2001).]

[Lobster]

Originally posted by Flatulence:
Stile recently posted a movie clip of a kitten being beaten to death, stir fried, and then eaten. The result was an uproar amongst groups like PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals - peta.org), and even amongst regular Stile Project viewers.

That is beyond disgusting, inhumane, or immoral. Jesus f-ing Christ.

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--Lobster--

[Yoda]

"To us it seems like the ultimate taboo," Stile writes. "How could those Godless Asians do such a thing to such a beautiful creature? Well, I'm sure Indians wonder the same thing about us, but you don't see North Americans shedding a tear every time a cow is slaughtered.... When's the last time you cried over a Big Mac?

"I do not condone animal abuse, and I view the video more as an educational tool than one of shock value," he adds. "For us to say it is wrong, it would just make us all hypocrites since most of us eat meat."

I completely agree with stile. The first amendment protects all speech or expression, no matter how offensive. If people don't like it, they can just boycott the site.

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"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights." - H.L. Menken

[Pikeman]

Originally posted by Yoda:
I completely agree with stile.  The first amendment protects all speech or expression, no matter how offensive.  If people don't like it, they can just boycott the site.

*Pikeman looks lovingly at the cat he's had for 11 years, then quietly draws a white line and steps behind it*

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"My brother-in-law died. He was a karate expert, then he joined the army. The first time he saluted, he killed himself." - Henny Youngman
Board Game, Where the real webboard fun happens......

[skyblade]

Damn it. It took me here: http://www.stileproject.com/notfound.html. I all wanted to see the movie too...

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[Washer]

People who distribute sh*t like that are f*cked in the head. I mean, I'm all for photos and stuff getting a message across (e.g. the pictures of mutilated corpses on the inserts of a jenny piccolo LP along with essay-length writing on how militarism sucks), but this, this is just f*cked up.

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Trench coats, $80. 6 propane tanks: $850. Sawn-off Shotgun: $300. Semi Automatic Assault Rifle: $450. The look on your classmates faces: priceless!

[Squibix]

I confess, I eat meat. Doing so, I can hardly object to the video soley on the grounds that it features the death and consumption of an animal (I confess I didn't watch the whole thing--partly because I only have a 56k connection and partly because, well...).

But that doesn't mean I don't have a problem with it. In general, I'm not much for all that sort of 'faces of death' business: I never really saw what's the point. Stile, showing all this business, claims to be the only one who 'actually shows reality for what it is'; funny, I thought I was living in reality. In our daily round we do come into contact with death from time to time, but for most of us it's hardly a constant presence. And it certainly doesn't seem healthy to seek it out for voyeuristic 'pleasure' (or whatever you might call it).

On the other hand, I think of places where death is a constant presence; I just read an Atlantic article about Rwanda during the genocide, and it was pretty terrible. By being happy and innocent of death are we failing in our responsibility to understand and appreciate horrors like those? Well, it's certainly true we're failing: the way we hear the news we can just say, oh, another 10,000 Africans died today--without that having any emotional impact. The biggest problem there is that the people, apparently, on whom it had the least impact of all was the government, who could have actually done something about the genocide.

So yeah, there are instances where we should be more aware of somebody else's reality. But is Stile presenting it in the right way? Surely not. Imagine what the 'faces of death' people would do with footage from Rwanda: wow, look at how that guy's head got split in half with that machete! No, that's not really what we need. 'Reality' thus presented will cause violent revulsion for some and guilty titilation for others, but will do no one at all any good. Except the people who sell the movie, maybe.

But what about what Stile says about how watching the cat movie (it's not really a kitten) put him off eating meat ever since? Surely that's worthwhile: if you can't bear to watch an animal being killed than how can you justifiably eat its dead carcass? And that's true enough: it's why I often think we should only be allowed to eat animals we keep ourselves, doing away with all this factory farm business (it's also the theory behind the videos of animals being killed on PETA's own site, something which, to my mind, renders all their accusations completely ridiculous).

So we can't complain about the movie on those grounds. If you eat meat, you should realize that it's been killed (I hope it's been killed, anyways!). The problem here is that, once again, the movie isn't likely to be really effective. Momentary disgust is no grounds for a lifetime of vegitarianism, at least for most people. Pretty soon they'll be on the highway and they'll get hungry and stop at a McDonalds.

So there goes that idea. All that's left, as a defense, is the old shock the bourgiousie theory: that is, anything that's 'real' and is also horrible disgusting is a Good Thing cause it'll shock the morally upright out of their smug complacency. The problem is, that nonsense never works. Instead, it just develops into a round of mutual hatred. It's like what those guys who run the 'Bonsai kitten' site say: they get all kinds of hate mail and they have fun reading it. Sure they have fun, but they also doubtless hate the mailers right back, and hope to dream up further ways to appall them. Is that socially constructive? No. Is it even socially relevant? I don't think so. History has proven that shock and revulsion are not effective tools of ideological advancement.

Alright, what's left? Is there any justification for this video? I don't see one. But I don't think that means it should be taken down, much less that Stile (or anyone) should be prosecuted for it. It would be different if it were a kitten snuff film, made purely for voyeuristic exhibition; but, as I understand it, the cat in question was actually killed to be eaten and the filming was incidental. As it is, I think the video is just one more thing that I, along with all other right-thinking folk ( ) can safely ignore while we try to change the world in real ways.

Yikes! Sorry that was so long!

[Flatulence]

Originally posted by skyblade:
Damn it. It took me here: http://www.stileproject.com/notfound.html.  I all wanted to see the movie too...

Read my edit. It explains that you have to actually copy-paste the url into your url box thingy.

Squibix: I doubt many people seek it out for 'pleasure' as you called it. Personally, I wasn't very bothered by it.... yes, it features a cat being beheaded and eaten, but that just didn't strike me on a very deep level. Now, if it was a dog, I'm sure it would have been very different (just another interesting side note)

I'll reply more later, I have to go to school.

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In... my.... self righteous suicide
I.... cry.... when angels deserve to die!
| AIM: CrazyJ617 | B-net: Flatulence187 | Pilot File Trade Network | Test Your Reflexes |

[Squibix]

Originally posted by Flatulence:
Squibix: I doubt many people seek it out for 'pleasure' as you called it.

Um... then why? To prove that they can watch a cat being killed without throwing up? Is it some sort of masochistic exercise?

[forge]

Originally posted by Squibix:
Um... then why? To prove that they can watch a cat being killed without throwing up? Is it some sort of masochistic exercise?

Perhaps for some. I watched it and my reaction was rather "Ok, so?" They are far worse things to be seen in the world, a cat being butchered, cooked, and eaten is far from the bottom of the heap.

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Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

10/31/96

[Gunsh The Hermit...]

These sort of site are there for one reason. Attention.

This 'Stile' dude was maybe some screwed up kid who decided he'd show pictures of cats being butchered just for fun. I mean sure, a lot of people have seen a lot of horrible things in real life, but then why put them up and lable them as funny?

I don't think it's funny at all. I think it's sad, sick ****ers like these that are screwing this world over. I really can't understand how someone can take 'humour' from that. That's not black comedy, that's just barbaric and pathetic.

If you're watching that and finding it amusing, I would start wondering if you're ****ed in the head in a serious way. Sure, we've all sent friends to sites like this but simply because of the disgust we know it will cause, and I have never found a person who actually liked these sorts of things.

Reality? What a bunch of ****. The real crap of reality isn't in cats getting butchered publically, it's in kids getting beaten with clubs, cut with knives, growing scared of existing, let alone confronting those horrors. It's in men getting their kneecaps broken for not paying debts, women getting raped in back alleys.

Real life? Stile can go and **** himself.

••The Crab

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If you have just read my post, then your probably wondering why the rage inside you is rising from your knees to your stomach. You may feel a revulsion for my views and a disgust for my lack of acceptance of others. If you feel this, take a minute to calm down, pretend you don't hate me, then try posting.

Your life is just an excuse for me to hate somebody. Don't delude yourself you're anything more. I certainly won't.

[PyroQuake]

Originally quoted by Gunsh
<snip>

Amen. Sure, its not the worst thing ive seen, but that ****'s just sad....very very sad. Anyone who finds that funny needs to get checked up by a psychiatrist. Yeah, PETA is extremely radical, but i think they have a good case against this guy. Stile....what a lamer...

dont get me wrong, ill still go to stileproject links if someone on #ev3 gives out the link... i just hope none of them are as retarded as that one.

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J00 ph33r the Spoooooooon™ Cruiser! j00 ph33r it! Muahahahahahahaha!
/me runs....

[forge]

Well, after watching the video through again I have a few other thoughts on this:

1: Stile is 100% correct that if you eat meat and find this sick then you're a big ol' hypocrite.

2: I didn't find it the least bit disturbing or funny. It just is.

3: That law about depicting animal cruelty is rather silly.

4: If you've ever been in a slaughterhouse for cows or a factory that runs chickens through it then you'll see that this cat had it rather good in that it was clonked on the head a couple times first.

5: It's meat. A lot of people eat meat. Does it being furry or it being a pet to a lot of people in this country mean that it's any different from a cow? Not really. If we follow that "furry logic" then PETA members should form a protective wall around me at all times.

[editted for a typo or two]
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Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

10/31/96

[This message has been edited by forge (edited 08-30-2001).]

[Yoda]

Originally posted by Washer:
People who distribute sh*t like that are f*cked in the head. I mean, I'm all for photos and stuff getting a message across (e.g. the pictures of mutilated corpses on the inserts of a jenny piccolo LP along with essay-length writing on how militarism sucks), but this, this is just f*cked up.

Are you disputing his right to distribute the video?

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"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights." - H.L. Menken

[Guest_spl_cadet_*]

Just a question, but where are you guys getting this "everything you say is protected" crap? For starters, telling military secrets is illegal. Why don't you cry over that? What about kiddie porn? That should be a protected form of expression too by what you say. What about those people who desecrate sacred objects? What about this and that? Face it. The first amendment is bull**** if you look at it that way. Even the Justice Department says so.

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Shinigami's Demon: A Gundam Wing Fanfic Archive
EVN: The Beginning
US Naval Sea Cadet Corps, Petty Officer 3rd Class.

[Flatulence]

Please note that I asked people NOT to go on some anti-stile rant, but whatever. I totally agree with the points that forge made above. I was wondering how to put those down earlier, but he did it better than I ever could, so scroll up.

spl, since when does the Justice Department say the 1st amendment is bull****? Please, enlighten me... actually, nevermind. I don't really want to hear an explanation from someone who says something like "the first amendment is bull****"... *sigh*

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In... my.... self righteous suicide
I.... cry.... when angels deserve to die!
| AIM: CrazyJ617 | B-net: Flatulence187 | Pilot File Trade Network | Test Your Reflexes |

[skyblade]

People are protesting the cat video, but like it said on the main page of stileproject.com, have they forgotten about this clip? http://static.stileproject.com/video/chech.mpg

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[forge]

Originally posted by skyblade:
People are protesting the cat video, but like it said on the main page of stileproject.com, have they forgotten about this clip?

That actually got the same response from me as the kitten clip did: Nothing. I'm not a cold, heartless bastard or anything, it's just that I've seen worse done to a cat and I've seen worse done to a human (mostly by themselves).

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Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

10/31/96

[skyblade]

Originally posted by forge:
That actually got the same response from me as the kitten clip did:  Nothing.  I'm not a cold, heartless bastard or anything, it's just that I've seen worse done to a cat and I've seen worse done to a human (mostly by themselves).

What about this one? http://static.stileproject.com/video/rex3.mpg

You have to feel _some_ compassion for that horse...

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