Modesty Blaise
May 16 2008, 09:50 AM
If you follow the starcraft pro leagues regularily, you'll know that nuking is not very common.
Succesful nuking is so rare that I don't know if it has happened before on this level.
I'm amazed at the strategy and cunning Casy shows here. The foresight and perfect excecution is just amazing, enjoy!
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8627_Casy_vs_Jy/vod
adam_0
May 16 2008, 06:14 PM
Wow that's insane... I think I would lose my mind trying to control all of that. I think the nukes were great because they caused just enough distraction to get the M&M in on the other side of the base... plus it did massive damage to the buildings.
n00ser
May 16 2008, 06:26 PM
What's with the assimilators?
Eugene Chin
May 16 2008, 06:52 PM
They seem to be "Rescueable" Structures, scattered across the map.
They're probably there to speed up expansions, and thus the pace of the game.
adam_0
May 16 2008, 06:55 PM
When I looked at the geysers underneath the buildings, it said "depleted," although the person may have used both of them that quickly.
Modesty Blaise
May 17 2008, 03:26 AM
QUOTE(n00ser @ May 16 2008, 11:26 PM)

What's with the assimilators?
They partly block entrances, so that you can use it as a choke early on. Mostly to keep maps fair.
adam_0
May 17 2008, 09:47 AM
Wow that is something I would have never thought of. I want that map now...
Modesty Blaise
May 17 2008, 12:49 PM
QUOTE(Rebelious @ May 17 2008, 02:47 PM)

Wow that is something I would have never thought of. I want that map now...
There are many like them. I think you can find them on the Teamliquid map page.
adam_0
May 17 2008, 01:06 PM
Hrm, I looked on their site, and that map, Troy, was not available for download. I ended up getting it by doing a Google search. I desperately want to play somebody on this...
n00ser
May 17 2008, 04:39 PM
QUOTE(Modesty Blaise @ May 17 2008, 04:26 AM)

They partly block entrances, so that you can use it as a choke early on. Mostly to keep maps fair.
Maps are unfair?
adam_0
May 17 2008, 05:19 PM
QUOTE(n00ser @ May 17 2008, 02:39 PM)

Maps are unfair?
I think it has something to do with that
fair and balanced thing news companies always talk about.
But seriously, some maps have "wider" choke points, which means that you have to build more blocking buildings to keep rushes from destroying you. In order to be "fair," there's a specific width that choke points must be to be considered "fair."
Sniper Kitty
May 17 2008, 06:36 PM
QUOTE(Rebelious @ May 17 2008, 05:19 PM)

But seriously, some maps have "wider" choke points, which means that you have to build more blocking buildings to keep rushes from destroying you. In order to be "fair," there's a specific width that choke points must be to be considered "fair."
I dislike this idea.
adam_0
May 17 2008, 06:38 PM
But the Terran players that build Supply Depots at choke points do.
Modesty Blaise
May 17 2008, 07:02 PM
QUOTE(n00ser @ May 17 2008, 09:39 PM)

Maps are unfair?
Well yes.
Some of the built in maps have start locations which are really unfair. Nearly all tournament maps are fair though. Rebelious is pretty dead on about the width, though there are other factors depending on level size etc.
That said there is not a single strategy game with different races who have the same level of fairness as starcraft.
adam_0
May 17 2008, 07:04 PM
...but also there's the nigh-unstoppable Zealot rush, M&M rush, etc.
Sniper Kitty
May 17 2008, 08:03 PM
Okay, I have to ask.
Why don't they design symmetrical, arena style maps if they don't want players to... you know... exploit natural advantages in the terrain?
adam_0
May 17 2008, 08:35 PM
Because that's very difficult with the map editor. I've never been able to do it, actually.
Sniper Kitty
May 17 2008, 08:59 PM
It's not that hard. Unless you're talking precisely symmetrical. Otherwise you just spend a lot of time, and count squares as you place 'em.
When I was a lad they were the only kind I would to make. I had an OCDish thing going on of course.
Now I embrace more chaotic designs, and look back with disgust.
Anon
May 17 2008, 10:46 PM
I'm disappointed with how little I could understand of what the announcers were saying...
They were talking pretty fast though.
adam_0
May 17 2008, 11:24 PM
QUOTE(Anon @ May 17 2008, 08:46 PM)

I'm disappointed with how little I could understand of what the announcers were saying...
They were talking pretty fast though.
I like how when they see the Ghost and realize what's happening they raise their voices, and as the nuke drops they go
WHOOOOOOA!
lobf
May 18 2008, 02:43 AM
I wish I had played Starcraft at some point and understood what was happening...
Eji1700
May 18 2008, 03:13 AM
I wish i could get the vid to work.
And on the issue of fairness competitive gaming is pretty damn heavily regulated on that. And maps don't have to be symmetrical, it's just much easier to balance.
Modesty Blaise
May 18 2008, 05:21 AM
There is this guy who went to Korea to comment for English fans.
I think he comments this one:
http://www.ggl.com/index.php?controller=Ne...;method=article
Eji1700
May 18 2008, 10:42 AM
Saw the second vid. Amazing match. Whats so wonderful about starcraft is that so many current RTS's would've been over 5 mins in and the winner would have actually lost. I'm astounded by how cool that was.
On the first vid which i finally got working, i wouldn't call destroying his resouce income a distraction. Rather a massive ######ing blow. Very cool game though
Sniper Kitty
May 19 2008, 12:40 AM
QUOTE(Eji1700 @ May 18 2008, 03:13 AM)

And maps don't have to be symmetrical, it's just much easier to balance.
Actually my point was that the maps they're using are not. Also that they're using vespine geysers to thin the entrances, instead of... you know... the terrain. I don't know, this is probably just a matter of "That's just how they do it" anyway so I should probably just drop it... but little stuff gets to me sometimes.
Back to the topic: ZOMG! The second video was by far the better of the two. Mostly because it included both a high-stakes-winner-takes-all confrontation, and a flawless come-back-from-behind victory. The only thing it lacked was a fight to the bitter end, but I can of course respect a skillful player withdrawing from a hopeless situation. You just can't beat the production capacity of a determined (and mindful) zerg player.
I pose a question: Are there any televised matches that aren't duals? I would love to see the suspense, betrayal, and intrigue that would ensue from a handful of skilled player meeting each other in an FFA!
At least that's how I picture it...
Modesty Blaise
May 19 2008, 04:46 AM
QUOTE(Sniper Kitty @ May 19 2008, 05:40 AM)

Actually my point was that the maps they're using are not. Also that they're using vespine geysers to thin the entrances, instead of... you know... the terrain. I don't know, this is probably just a matter of "That's just how they do it" anyway so I should probably just drop it... but little stuff gets to me sometimes.
They always used terrain before. The assimilators and other buildings are a new idea.
Introduced because just terrain became a bit boring, and you cannot modify terrain during play.
With buildings they still get the choke early on, and later in the game players can take away the choke.
There are other maps where they prevent you from expanding until you kill some building which is in the way of the expansion.
This evolution of new maps and ideas are one of the strenghts of starcraft in my opinion.
Sniper Kitty
May 19 2008, 11:37 AM
Fair enough.
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