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General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
The Miranu are the most sinister race of all. They casually employ the Emalgha and the Humans as a buffer against Voinian expansion, while assisting neither of them. They get rich while trading with every side in the Strand War. They employ the Zachit, instead of fighting their own battles. They claim to be peaceful, yet they have a secret weapon development programme underway. They are actively engaged in the export of fuzzes, to the point where that species is facing extinction. Finally, they don't seem to belong to our galaxy at all; humanity, the Zidagar, the Azdgari and the Igadzra are all represented by monoliths on one of the Council's planets... there's no mention of the Miranu.



Ugh. So this kind of reasoning Voinian supporters use. They use arguments that things cant be proven to be bad are bad. They make the only completely peaceful race evil. No offense VoinianAmbassador (I never want to hurt anyone), but that's ridiculous.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions

[This message has been edited by General Cade Smart (edited 01-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by General Cade Smart (edited 01-07-2003).]
Blackdog
QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
No offense VoinianAmbassador (I never want to hurt anyone), but that's ridiculous.


Not nearly as ridiculous as Lonevoinian's description of how the war started.

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Angband. The D2 alternative.
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Blackdog:
Not nearly as ridiculous as Lonevoinian's description of how the war started.



Oh yeah, I forgot that. Thanks for the reminder Blackdog.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
David Arthur
QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
The Miranu are the most sinister race of all. They casually employ the Emalgha and the Humans as a buffer against Voinian expansion, while assisting neither of them.


The Miranu don't provide military assistance, but they do trade with both of the races fighting the Voinians, which may well mean vital supplies to the Emalgha. For that matter, is there anything in the game that actually suggests that the Miranu have even made contact with the Voinians?

QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
They employ the Zachit, instead of fighting their own battles.


Sort of like how our governments hire a police force, you mean?

QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
Finally, they don't seem to belong to our galaxy at all; humanity, the Zidagar, the Azdgari and the Igadzra are all represented by monoliths on one of the Council's planets... there's no mention of the Miranu.


Isn't that from a plug-in?


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David Arthur @ davidarthur.evula.net
EV Nova Gameplay FAQ - Now Hosted by EV-Nova.net!
SNM
Good point, Solel...

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General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by David Arthur:
For that matter, is there anything in the game that actually suggests that the Miranu have even made contact with the Voinians?



In the Nebula Exploration missions Miranu say that they have tried to open trade, but "the Voinians remains rigidly xenophobic in this respect".

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Desperado
(Jake would like to preface this message with a warning that many factors may have contributed to it being total garbage. Read it if you dare.) So, if the Voinians have contacted the Miranu at some point, how? Speculations? Any evidence? Why am I staying up to think about this? My thinking is that, unless they Miranu contacted the Voinians THROUGH the Emalgha, they would have been exposed to possible Voinian attack. Have we already discussed what instigates Voinian attack? Maybe they're just a conquering empire, like Rome, whose economy couldnt have supported itself in the long run without spoils of war. Not so evil as a USSR or Nazi Germany empire, but still evil in their own unique way.

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"Love is what makes you smile when you're tired."
Coraxus
Let's face it, there are about 4 kinds of pple in the universe (more or less but who keeps track?)

1. Good guys
2. Bad guys
3. Good badguys and
4. Bad goodguys.

Maybe this will explain everything.

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Nosumus Fortiolis Quad Volimus
I'm the only guy in the universe that can make horses laugh and cry.
DryDock Station, the future site of Coraxus's stuff.
Borb II
Voinians.
They are setup to be such bad guys, there must be some conspiracy.

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A life??? Ooo thats a new plug-in right?
"Borb II of V.S.S Hellfire."

[This message has been edited by Borb II (edited 01-13-2003).]
Bomb
QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
The Miranu are the most sinister race of all. They casually employ the Emalgha and the Humans as a buffer against Voinian expansion, while assisting neither of them. They get rich while trading with every side in the Strand War. They employ the Zachit, instead of fighting their own battles. They claim to be peaceful, yet they have a secret weapon development programme underway. They are actively engaged in the export of fuzzes, to the point where that species is facing extinction. Finally, they don't seem to belong to our galaxy at all; humanity, the Zidagar, the Azdgari and the Igadzra are all represented by monoliths on one of the Council's planets... there's no mention of the Miranu.



LOL. If I ever get around to finishing Reign III, there is no doubt (with your permission of course) that this text will be included in it..

_bomb


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"And to all the enemies of humanity, seek not to bar our way, for we shall win through....
....No matter the cost."
Lonevoinian
QUOTE
Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador:
The Miranu are the most sinister race of all. They casually employ the Emalgha and the Humans as a buffer against Voinian expansion, while assisting neither of them. They get rich while trading with every side in the Strand War. They employ the Zachit, instead of fighting their own battles. They claim to be peaceful, yet they have a secret weapon development programme underway. They are actively engaged in the export of fuzzes, to the point where that species is facing extinction. Finally, they don't seem to belong to our galaxy at all; humanity, the Zidagar, the Azdgari and the Igadzra are all represented by monoliths on one of the Council's planets... there's no mention of the Miranu.


Amen brother. Finally, someone sees the light of the absolute and undeniable evil of the Miranu Empire.

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Do you have any idea how many YEARS it has been since I actually completed an in-game Central Objective?

[This message has been edited by Lonevoinian (edited 02-10-2003).]
kauthor
LoneVoinian, I would allow your post normally, but I warn you, this topic was last updated one month ago. If you do deeper archaeology than that, then you will get warning like mine from different people.

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Bomb
QUOTE
Originally posted by kauthor:
LoneVoinian, I would allow your post normally, but I warn you, this topic was last updated one month ago. If you do deeper archaeology than that, then you will get warning like mine from different people.



As much as I agree with what you're saying, (it is annoying) the EVO board needs the traffic. Anything to get people posting again and talking about the game is pretty welcome (at least from me, anyway). A month isn't too bad. A year or two, that's uncalled for..

_bomb

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"I want to tell you about a time I almost died...."
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Lonevoinian:
Amen brother.  Finally, someone sees the light of the absolute and undeniable evil of the Miranu Empire.



Similar minds think alike, says the proverb. Because Lonevoinian is a Voinian supporter too , he agrees. I show my earlier post. And Blackdogs reply.

Ugh. So this kind of reasoning Voinian supporters use. They use arguments that things cant be proven to be bad are bad. They make the only completely peaceful race evil.

Not nearly as ridiculous as Lonevoinian's description of how the war started.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions

[This message has been edited by General Cade Smart (edited 02-11-2003).]
Captain Carnotaur
Ah yes, the old "UE vs. Voinian" thing...

Let's assume for a moment that the UE and the Voinians had no external help. That means; no Emalgha, no Hinwar, and no Miranu. What would happen?

As everyone probably knows, a Voinian Frigate is not a match for the UE Destroyer. Couple a UE Destroyer with a few fighters and then you really have a problem if you're the captain of a Frigate. However, what if the Frigate has help? Two frigates will very much spell doom for a UE Destroyer, as will a few extra Heavy Fighters thrown into the mix.

However, what of the Voinian Cruiser vs. the UE Carrier? If I am correct (I haven't played EVO in a while), Voinian Heavy Fighters are more heavily armed than UE Fighters, which means that the Voinian Cruiser has a slight advantage in the area of availible fighter firepower. It also has a very large amount of hull armor, but it is extremely slow. The end result is that if the Voinian Cruiser is far away when it engages the UE Carrier, Hunter Missiles will be a severe pain to the Cruiser. Frigates, Interceptors, and Heavy Fighters are all less vulnerable because of their speed and maneuverability, but Cruisers, because of their pure bulk and lack of speed, are extremely vulnerable. However, if the Cruiser can get close fast, then it will almost certainly win (if I remember correctly. I did several tests with this a while ago). Neutron Turrets, especially in mass numbers, are possibly the most deadly weapons in EVO. If a Cruiser were to engage a Destroyer, its firepower would quickly destroy the Destroyer whether or not it was nearby or far away.

But what of the UE Cruiser? Yes, it is quite a formidable warship; almost too formidable to be realistic. But can it really defeat a Voinian Cruiser? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Once again, it's all about Hunter Missiles. Voinians lack any sort of accurate long-range ordinance to counter the UE's guided missiles. The Voinians are too slow to do anything about them, and so the UE have an advantage in that area. The UE Cruiser has quite a lot of weapons, but it is still possible for a Voinian Cruiser to destroy one of them if it gets close enough fast enough.

And what of weapons? Voinian Neutron weaponry is deadly, but bulky and slow to fire if you don't have enough of them. The turreted rocket launchers can be quite useful and are very powerful. The primary weapon of the UE is the famous Blaze Cannon, which is inaccurate but fast firing. Each individual blast does little damage, but the power of hundreds of blasts streaming out can be devastating. Rockets are also powerful but not turreted, and Hunter Missiles provide a powerful advantage when dealing with Voinians at long range. UE weaponry seems totally built, as you would expect, around blowing up Voinians. Blaze weapons do heavy damage to armor, and Hunter Missiles have no counter in the Voinian Military. Voinian Neutron weaponry also have a bit of Anti-UE engineering as they do considerable damage per blast to shields. In long-range weaponry, the UE definitely have the advantage, as rockets can be quite inaccurate even if they are turreted. However, in close range weaponry, the Voinian Neutron Cannon and Turret, combined with the power of their turreted rockets, seem to have the upper hand.

And finally, there is the fighters. The Interceptor is about equal to the UE Fighter in firepower, but the Voinian Heavy Fighter has quite a lot of guns and room for lots more. The UE Fighter, however, has much greater maneuverability, and so I would have to say, fighter wise, the UE and Voinians are about equal.

In fact, the UE and Voinians are about equal in every respect. However, it has been my observation that there seems to be more Voinian Cruisers than UE Carriers. This would be expected, seeing as the Voinians lack very good fighters, and they probably know that, which is why they seem to concentrate on their warships more than the UE do.

Looking at the tactical situation, Outpost Theta (and later Outpost Omicron, if I remember the names correctly) are both rather remote and could be taken if a large Voinian fleet were to attack them. Reinforcements could be blocked with secondary attacks on Outposts Alpha and Gamma to divert UE fleets. Once Outpost Theta was taken, Voinian forces could capture Outpost Gamma simply by moving through Dogover into Eltor with a large fleet. Another large fleet would then move into DSN-114. These two fleets would effectively cut off any reinforcements that would otherwise reach Outpost Gamma. The main fleet would then move into Yandros, destroy the UE forces, and then have the other two fleets in Eltor and DSN-114 to move into Yandros for extra protection. The only way to effectively destroy and/or capture Outpost Alpha would be to create a diversionary attack. The Voinians would send large fleets against Saalia, Verril, Tulir, and Ariane. This would draw away considerable amount of the UE fleet while the main task force would enter Bakka and rapidly deal with the opposing vessels. Once Outpost Alpha was secured, the fleets would withdraw to Outpost Alpha or one of the others to reinforce for a UE reprisal. With these simple tactics, the entire UE frontier would be captured or destroyed, leaving the center of the UE open to invasion.

And though the UE and Voinians seem rather equal, I would have to say that the Voinians would, in the end, prevail against the UE.

However...

Remember that I said that we will assume that the Emalgha, Hinwar, and Miranu do not exist or at the very least are not involved at all in the war.

What if they were involved?

Though the Miranu would probably not be much of a threat (phase weapons would do little to dent Voinian armor), they would (once the UE make contact with them) be able to support the UE in other ways. The Miranu are, after all, the greatest traders in the known galaxy, and thus could suppor the UE economically, bringing in supplies, resources, raw materials, etc. And, of course, they could share some of their technology; their powerful shield emitters, and pursuit missile guidance technology which would greatly improve Hunter Missiles. Other than that, however, their influence would be limited. Miranu Crescent Fighters are no match for Voinian warships, phase cannots are useless against them, and even the Gunship does not have sufficient firepower to put up any more than a meager fight.

The Hinwar are not a very big player, but they are useful. If properly supplied, the Hinwar could become somewhat powerful and dangerous, as was shown in the UE Mission string. However, alone, they are not much of a threat, and their power is limited, but they can distract Voinian fleets, which would hamper large-scale offensives.

The Emalgha are probably the biggest players aside from the UE and Voinians themselves, obviously. Their navy is powerful and is well equipped to deal specifically with the Voinians. If the Emalgha were to recieve technology from the Miranu and/or UE, they would become even more dangerous with enhanced armor and shields. However, they are weak in some areas, and their warships are not much of a challenge against Voinian Cruisers. But, the Emalgha and Hinwar combined could easily tie up many ships and perhaps even whole fleets, distracting the Voinians from their main threat, the UE, and costing them just enough to prevent a wide-scale offensive against themselves. If the Voinians were to place the brunt of their entire military soully against the Emalgha and Hinwar, it would be devastating for the UE. The Hinwar would then be silenced and unable to attempt another uprising, and the Emalgha would also be in serious peril. The best way to deal with them would be to make a diversionary attack against Emalghion while the main fleet attacks Kelmaon, as was done in the Voinian mission string. However, the next step would be for a three-pronged attack directly against Emalghion. Coming from Kelmaon, DSN-4743, and DSN-2061, the three Voinian fleets would simply overwhelm the Emalgha defense forces. Once the Emalgha and Hinwar were dealt with, the Voinians could then consontrate on the UE, and though they would find it much harder to conquer them, they might still win.

However, the concentrated attacks against the Hinwar and Emalgha would leave the Voinian-UE frontier vulnerable. The UE could attack the Voinians in a sudden lightning offensive, overwhelm the defending fleets, and do a great deal of damage before withdrawing back to the UE Frontier. The UE could also leave a fleet lying in wait in DSN-8209, ready to attack the Voinians the moment they jump into Kelmaon. With the Voinians in Kelmaon delt with, the attack on Emalghion would be in jeopardy. The two remaining Voinian fleets (plus the survivors from Kelmaon) might just be able to destroy the Emalgha fleets, but there would still be the issue of the UE fleet returning to Emalghion from Kelmaon. The Voinians would, in all likelyhood, be doomed. With the Voinian offensive against the Emalgha now crippled, the UE (during the actual battles) could begin a sudden offensive which would deal a lot of damage to the Voinian fleets on the UE-Voinian frontier. The Voinians would have to go into a defensive mode until their fleets were strong enough. During this time, however, the Emalgha could rebuild and even enlarge their fleet, while the UE also built up for another offensive.

Simultaneous attacks on Vorik, Obron, and Avann would distract the Voinians while a combined UE and Emalgha Task force could make attacks on Niot and Fridion. While the attack on Niot would be more of a diversionary attack, the assault against Fridion would be the main prong of the offensive. With Fridion captured, the Emalgha and UE task force in Fridion could then aid the attack in Niot, capturing that system as well. While consolidating their borders in the north, the UE could make concentrated two-pronged attacks against Avann and Vorik. Obron would be a bad choice for an assault, as it is hard to get to (there is only one availible hyperlink into it without straying into Vorik as well), and it is close to other major Voinian military bases. Depending on where the Voinians shift most of their weight, the UE would bring in their main task force of Destroyers and Cruisers and capture Vorik or Avann. Vorik would be the better choice, because fleets could then move through unfortified Mihal and attack Avann, making it possible for a three-pronged attack against the enemy defenders. Once the captured base was fortified against reprisal, the UE could then concentrate against the second base. Once that fell, the UE and Emalgha would then build up their fleets again.

Romit would be the next logical choice for an assault. The refueling bases on the way to Tientu could be delt with easily or simply ignored. The attack on Romit could then be supported by a second thrust from Avann. Meanwhile, a detachment of Destroyers and Cruisers could be sent off to deal with Isled, either capturing or destroying the cut off station. The UE could then send in a large task force into Gamur. This would hopefully draw some of the enemy forces away from Obron. At this point, two UE fleets would attack Obron. One fleet coming directly from Yandros, the other going through Gamur to create a pincer against the Voinian defenders. Obron could then be taken, and UE forces would then concentrate on taking Gamur. Once Gamur fell, Hinavar (did I spell that right?) would be the next target. The Hinwar would then be free and able to aid in the war effort.

However, the Voinians could defend against these moves as well. Depending on how they used the Dreadnought, the Voinians could use it more logically against the UE, or first to deal with the Emalgha. A Dreadnought supported by just two Voinian warfleets would be unstoppable even if the Emalgha had some help. With the Emalgha gone, the entire northern campaign would fall apart. Now, of course, the UE could counter this (if they someone found out about the Voinians plans) by sending a large task force of Cruisers, Destroyers, and Carriers to destroy the Voinian fleet. But this would be costly for the UE, especially if the Voinian went for overkill and sent three or four fleets to escort the Dreadnought. And even then, it is not a guaranteed win for the UE.

There are also many other things which you must consider. What of Huron? This leaves doubts about the stability of the UE government. And what of the Renegades? They seem to able to amass large and powerful fleets to attack either Independents or the UE. At the Battle of Pariah the UE lost a considerable number of destroyers. What if, during the offensive against the Voinians, the Renegades see that the UE is weak on their southern frontier, and proceed to launch a wave of devastating raids against the UE. This would be costly for the UE navy, and would force the UE to divert more ships to the southern frontier with the Renegades. This would not only weaken the UE's offensives, but also possible delay it, providing the Voinians with more time to build up their own forces. There is also the possibility that the UE would loose one of their colonies, hampering their ability to construct ships and support their navy. And what if the Igadzra suddenly and inexplicably decide to conquer the UE?

However, the Voinians have their own issues. The Voinian defector incident leaves doubts as to the loyalty of Voinian scientists and officers. And then there is the very basis of Voinian government. They are an empire, a dictatorship bent on conquering and/or destroying other worlds and people, and enslaving them to do their bidding and to fuel the Voinian war machine. Throughout history, it is these kinds of governments that fall apart and crumble. The Voinian defector incident was an example of this.

So, basically, it's a standoff. It all depends on which side makes the right decisions, and the circumstances which may benefit or hamper a side. If the war were simply to continue as is with no major offensives, it will remain a standoff. There are a variety of different moves which can be used in different ways. Timing and coordination is essential. In conclusion, I believe both the Voinians and UE have a good chance of winning.

Now was that a long post or what?

-Captain Carnotaur

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.

[This message has been edited by Captain Carnotaur (edited 02-11-2003).]
General Cade Smart
It was a absurdly long post. Htyang length. The longest post Reality webstory length. But is was as insightful too. You forgot SADs. They are deadly. With extreme power and extreme accuracy, Voinians have no chance. 40 SADs is enough to disable a Frigate. Because you like speculating so much , what if phase was modified to be armor-crunching? I was amazed you said Emalgha navy is powerful. Everyone else has thought they are the worst in galaxy (even worse than Human Renegades), their only good thing being anti-armor cannon. What do you mean by "almost too formiddable to be realistic"? and "it is still possible for a Voinian Cruiser to destroy one of them if it gets close enough fast enough"? Are you a Voinian supporter too?


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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Cooldude
UE are people that blame people and get mad at the slightest provocation while the voinians are big ******** that need power, power and more power.

Both are dumb


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Cooldude
Captain Carnotaur
Haha, now watch as I pick your post apart piece by piece!

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
It was a absurdly long post. Htyang length. The longest post Reality webstory length. But is was as insightful too.


Thank you.

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
You forgot SADs. They are deadly. With extreme power and extreme accuracy, Voinians have no chance. 40 SADs is enough to disable a Frigate.


Actually, it has been my obeservation that SAD's do little damage to armor. Combined with their slow reload, it would take a long time to take down any Voinian ship Frigate and up. By that time, a Voinian ship could get close enough to start unloading its rocket compliment and shredding your hull with Neutron Cannons. It is because of this that I do not consider the Miranu Gunship a big player if the Miranu joined the UE in the war against the Voinians. And, of course, we are assuming that the Miranu would actually want to join in the war. It is my opinion that the Miranu would at the most support the UE economically, boosting their ability to produce more ships and so forth.

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
Because you like speculating so much   , what if phase was modified to be armor-crunching?


Phase weapons are based upon the idea that they cannot do much damage to armor. It has been postulated in numerous EVO-based webstories that Neutron and Phase weaponry could be combined to form a fast-firing powerful primary weapon, but you must also note that Neutron Weaponry does not do an incredible amount of damage to armor, even though it is powerful.

The main advantage the Miranu would bring to the UE, in my opinion, would be guidance technology. Make it impossible to run from a Hunter Missile. Perhaps even turn a Rocket into a semi-guided weapon. SADs, however, do not seem like the kind of weapon that could be easily converted for use by the UE, though it possibly and probably would be useful in engagements against the Renegades. With the Renegades less of a threat because of UE ships equipped with SADs, more UE ships would be availible for use against the Voinians.

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
I was amazed you said Emalgha navy is powerful. Everyone else has thought they are the worst in galaxy (even worse than Human Renegades), their only good thing being anti-armor cannon.


Yes, their navy is rather weak, but only compared to governments like the Miranu, the UE, the Strands, and the Human Renegades. All of these use their shields as their primary defense against attacks. The Emalgha are fighting the Voinians, a race who focuses on armor. Thus, the Emalgha can be quite dangerous against the Voinians. They would be even more dangerous if equipped with UE shield generators.

And after all, who else is better than them in the fight against the Voinians? The Hinwar are close but still not a particularly large threat. There is simply no other force fighting the Voinians that has any real power, which would place the Emalgha as the second most powerful race fighting the Voinians.

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
What do you mean by "almost too formiddable to be realistic"?...


What I mean is that I have sometimes classified the UE Cruiser as a ship almost too powerful for the UE to build. Just seems unusual that they suddenly get this uber-cruiser which everyone claims can toast every ship in the Voinian navy.

QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
...and "it is still possible for a Voinian Cruiser to destroy one of them if it gets close enough fast enough"? Are you a Voinian supporter too?


No, that is fact. I have tested it before, and found that whether or not a Voinian Cruiser can win depends on how far away it is when it begins the engagement. Generally, if it is close, it will destroy the UE Cruiser. If it is far away, the Hunter Missiles of the UE Cruiser will damage the Voinian Cruiser, and by the time it gets close enough to fight, the UE Cruiser will have begun using its Rockets, its Fighters will be deployed, and the Voinian Cruiser will most likely loose.

I personally like both sides. The UE Destroyer is cool, but I also like the Voinian Cruiser and find it quite powerful when dealing with Crescent or Strand races. I also like the UE because they seem to have a better and more expansive mission string to some degrees. The Voinian mission string seems purposefully underdone and incomplete.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
Cooldude
Hey Carnotaur: did you do 7100 posts as long as the ones here or are these the only long onesyou did?

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Cooldude
Captain Carnotaur
I can't really say. Some are very short, some are not so short, some are about average, but many are very long. My long posts are usually for webstories or in debates like this one.

Now back to the subject at hand...

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Haha, now watch as I pick your post apart piece by piece!  
I personally like both sides. The UE Destroyer is cool, but I also like the Voinian Cruiser and find it quite powerful when dealing with Crescent or Strand races. I also like the UE because they seem to have a better and more expansive mission string to some degrees. The Voinian mission string seems purposefully underdone and incomplete.



Why do you pick it apart piece by piece? Because it contains stuff important enough to do it that way? I like the Voinian Cruiser in the Cresnt too. For doing the Zidagar string (the hardest of the three)... muhaha! Upgraded with Broven Plating, Dospect Armor, 6 Neutron Turrets and speed ugrades, it fight two Adzgari Warships at the same time and still be alive. First rip the 12 Azdaras off by standing in one place, pressing R, and firing until Azdara dies.Repeat. Then fire at Adzgari Warship until its dísabled. Then fire at another one. After doing that, UE Cruiser felt awful for against the Crescent. I had a UE Cruiser pilot that had 5 Neutron Turrets and all speed upgrades. And because it was Beyond the Crescent, I had Bronev Plating too. Yet, in a mission to destroy Renegades at Mavs, it got first its shields down from the SADs from two Crescent Warships, and then exploded as the Neutron Turrets didnt fire fast enough to destroy the swarming Crescent Fighters. I could do this mission only by capturing a Crescent Warship. Even then, I got down to armor, some damaged.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Captain Carnotaur
Yes, the Voinian Cruiser is THE perfect warship for fighting in the Crescent. However, I would think that a UE Cruiser would do better fighting in the Crescent than a Crescent Warship. After all, it has more shields, more armor, and a lot more space for weapons.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
Gen_Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
It was a absurdly long post. Htyang length. The longest post Reality webstory length. But is was as insightful too. You forgot SADs. They are deadly. With extreme power and extreme accuracy, Voinians have no chance. 40 SADs is enough to disable a Frigate. Because you like speculating so much   , what if phase was modified to be armor-crunching? I was amazed you said Emalgha navy is powerful. Everyone else has thought they are the worst in galaxy (even worse than Human Renegades), their only good thing being anti-armor cannon. What do you mean by "almost too formiddable to be realistic"? and "it is still possible for a Voinian Cruiser to destroy one of them if it gets close enough fast enough"? Are you a Voinian supporter too?



one of the large Emalgha fighter craft(the freiter refited to fight battles, forgot its name though) can defeat a vionion frigie ono on one, both under comp control. the Voinian frigete died, but the Emalgha had greter then 9% sheilds after both the frigie and it blowing up.
for the Human figter, it takes out voinian fiters as it is faster, so missiles miss them. plus if a voinian fighter is hit by a rocket it disabled, but the U.E fighter still has sheilds left!
the carrier can defeat a voinion carrer esaly; better fighters, and they do strafing runs on the carrrer so they can't hit the fighter al all. say the fighter exchange rocke's, and they book have 5, 1 vs 1 battles.they will shoot rockets at eachother and, the U.E. fighter will it be shooting after that, but the Voinian fighters will all be disabled and soon destoyed. the ue fighter can reload with it's carrier.(the comp some times does do this). now look the voinion lost sheilds and some aromur and all it'a fighters, but the U.E has lost obly a few hunter-missls. and remeber that the U.E can deploy it's fighters in about a few seconds, but it takes the voinion far longer.
the new crusser can blow up any thing sent at it, espally if you put fighters and or more hunter missle/lauchers on bourd(for comp).
Captain Carnotaur
QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
one of the large Emalgha fighter craft(the freiter refited to fight battles, forgot its name though) can defeat a vionion frigie ono on one, both under comp control. the Voinian frigete died, but the Emalgha had greter then 9% sheilds after both the frigie and it blowing up.


Yes, but oftentimes a Voinian Frigate will toast an Emalgha Warship. Unfortunately, I haven't played EVO in a while, so I don't remember the outcomes of battles between Warships and Frigates. I would think that a Frigate would have a bit of an upper hand; it's weapons are longer range and more accurate, and its only real disadvantage is a lack of speed.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
for the Human figter, it takes out voinian fiters as it is faster, so missiles miss them. plus if a voinian fighter is hit by a rocket it disabled, but the U.E fighter still has sheilds left!


Hmmmmm... I don't recall Voinian Heavy Fighters getting disabled that easily. Also note that the UE Fighter has less raw firepower and a lot less room for expansion.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
the carrier can defeat a voinion carrer esaly;


I would have to generally disagree on that.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
better fighters...


Which is only a matter mainly of opinion, where in truth they both have advantages and disadvantages regarding firepower and protection.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
...and they do strafing runs on the carrrer so they can't hit the fighter al all.


Not really. Fighters, especially in large capitol ship battles, are quickly toasted. A rocket and a few neutron blasts will generally destroy a UE Fighter. The only real way that UE fighters can survive is if the UE Carrier comes in quicker and distracts the Voinian Cruiser; the Voinian warship can't direct enough weapons to the fighters because it has to deal with the Carrier as well. Of course, there is also the Voinian Heavy Fighters, which will then deal some fairly hefty damage to the UE Carrier as well.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
say the fighter exchange rocke's, and they book have 5, 1 vs 1 battles.they will shoot rockets at eachother and, the U.E. fighter will it be shooting after that, but the Voinian fighters will all be disabled and  soon destoyed.


As I said earlier, I don't recall Voinian Fighters getting destroyed that quickly and easily, and it is often the Voinians who get off the first shot. Also note that Neutron weaponry has a great range.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
the ue fighter can reload with it's carrier.(the comp some times does do this). now look the voinion lost sheilds and some aromur and all it'a fighters...


The Voinians actually seem to reload their fighters more than the UE do. Also note that UE Fighters, even though they are faster, will not always win against Voinian Heavy Fighters, so the Voinians would not loose all their fighters that quickly.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
but the U.E has lost obly a few hunter-missls.


Much more than a few Hunter Missiles. Mostly likely it will have lost most if not all of its fighter compliment. Same with the Voinians. It has been my experience that, usually, both ships will loose their entire fighter compliments. This is especially true if they start engaging from longer distances. Each warship has more time to deal with their opponents fighter wings.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
and remeber that the U.E can deploy it's fighters in about a few seconds, but it takes the voinion far longer.


That is true, but it is only a small advantage.

QUOTE
Originally posted by Gen_Duke:
the new crusser can blow up any thing sent at it, espally if you put fighters and or more hunter missle/lauchers on bourd(for comp).


Actually, as I have stated and proven through experiments (unless my memory is really bad), the Voinian Cruiser CAN defeat the UE Cruiser if given the right circumstances. You also cannot put more UE fighters and hunter missiles on an AI-controlled ship. If you're talking about player-controlled ships, I can take out any UE ship, including the Cruiser, easily with a Voinian Cruiser. But that's only when I control the ship.

-Captain Carnotaur

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
shayborg
QUOTE
Yes, but oftentimes a Voinian Frigate will toast an Emalgha Warship. Unfortunately, I haven't played EVO in a while, so I don't remember the outcomes of battles between Warships and Frigates. I would think that a Frigate would have a bit of an upper hand; it's weapons are longer range and more accurate, and its only real disadvantage is a lack of speed.


The Emalgha Warship can generally take a Voinian Frigate one on one, because of the Emalgha weapons' effectiveness against armor. I would take a frigate over an Emalgha warship any day, but in one on one combat the Emalgha ships are pretty good against Voinians.

QUOTE
Which is only a matter mainly of opinion, where in truth they both have advantages and disadvantages regarding firepower and protection.


My opinion on the heavy fighter and interceptor is well known -- I absolutely hate them both, desite VoinianAmbassador's attempts to convince me to the contrary. They're slow, easy to kill, and all in all aren't cut out to be fighters. They might have been all right if they were a little bigger and converted into gunships or something ...

I have to go finish a homework assignment, so I can't write any more now. Suffice to say the UE military ships are better than their Voinian counterparts.

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Visit my EVO web site at http://www.evoverride.com! (Note: this URL is temporarily not working. The link works, but typing in http://www.evoverride.com will take you to one of those evil search pages. I will fix this ASAP.)
"What a piece of work is man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?" -- Hamlet, Hamlet, II.ii
Captain Carnotaur
[quote]Originally posted by shayborg:
My opinion on the heavy fighter and interceptor is well known -- I absolutely hate them both, desite VoinianAmbassador's attempts to convince me to the contrary.    

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
Gen Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Hmmmmm... I don't recall Voinian Heavy Fighters getting disabled that easily. Also note that the UE Fighter has less raw firepower and a lot less room for expansion.
-Captain Carnotaur


they are disabled that fast. I done it, the UE fighter done it, and the UD desroyer done it. all with a standerd heavy rocket, and theat fighter is out of action.
Gen Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Not really. Fighters, especially in large capitol ship battles, are quickly toasted. A rocket and a few neutron blasts will generally destroy a UE Fighter. The only real way that UE fighters can survive is if the UE Carrier comes in quicker and distracts the Voinian Cruiser; the Voinian warship can't direct enough weapons to the fighters because it has to deal with the Carrier as well. Of course, there is also the Voinian Heavy Fighters, which will then deal some fairly hefty damage to the UE Carrier as well.

-Captain Carnotaur


actully no. when the UE fighter gets hit by a missle, it loses about 75 sheilds and pushed back, so it can't be hit by the neutrons, and will shoot while being pushed back. it sheilds regenerate fast, and there tend to be a few there, not one. these other UE fighers distract for each other, and the frigite/carrier can't kill one off, esp. if thay come from a UE carreir. the UE fighter AI makes us of it's fast speed, and charges in a wide ark, makeing it hard to hit with the heavey reocket, guided or not. as for neutrons, there two slow fireing to hit most of the time.
Gen Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
As I said earlier, I don't recall Voinian Fighters getting destroyed that quickly and easily, and it is often the Voinians who get off the first shot. Also note that Neutron weaponry has a great range.

-Captain Carnotaur



as I said, there are taked out by a heavey rocket. the UE figher i sence shots a heavy rocket of at the same time, but they can take a heavy rocket hit. Also the UE figher tends tends not to stay in one place, rahter they circle the target shhoting blaze and rockets at them, while the vionion figherts stay in one spot and misssing. I've seen this two meny time to meny times to count. as for range it not that great of a difference, and the UE blaze cannon and turet is faster fireing and knocks smaller ships back. remember that the comp does not make use of hte longer range ither. they shooting at about 80-87% of there normal range, lowering the small gap even smaller.

one more note: the shileds of all UE ship regenerate rather fast, while the seild of a voinion sheet never comes back online after being lost when controled by compter. they hull takes forever to repair, too
Gen Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
That is true, but it is only a small advantage.
-Captain Carnotaur



it is a big antvanage. the UE fighter are all out and shooting at the voinion carrerer, but the voinion one come out one at a time, alloying the carrerer to kill them esey, and sopport there fighter besides with missle that not only damage the voinion, but distract him from the fighter as well.
Gen Duke
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Actually, as I have stated and proven through experiments (unless my memory is really bad), the Voinian Cruiser CAN defeat the UE Cruiser if given the right circumstances. You also cannot put more UE fighters and hunter missiles on an AI-controlled ship. If you're talking about player-controlled ships, I can take out any UE ship, including the Cruiser, easily with a Voinian Cruiser. But that's only when I control the ship.

-Captain Carnotaur



and I seen manta's kill named kesteral and confed crussers on there own, and rebel fleets in sol system in EV. all given the right circumstances. I also seen one detroyer take out meny frigite givin the circumsatncees. try 4-6 destoyers piled on each other? they all share the damage, so you can't kill any one of them. anf yes, controld by computer booth. if it was me vs comp I myself can kill a a frigete, and maybe a crusser in s suttle armed with 3 blaster cannon's. I can do it for sure in a scout armed with noting but 2 phase turrets and a couple blase cannon's, but this is comp's vs comp. by that i sene one on one carrer vs carrer and the UE have one almost all the time.

oh and as for adding missiles and heavey rockets, you don't need to. when the us figher dockes with the mother ship/carrer it gets reset tothe orginal factory settings, inlcuding missiles and rockes, but none are taken form the carrer that lanched it. as they are lauched and fly faster, the time they spend out of battle is triveal. all the figher can go back to ther ship ther from, reload and relauch in seconds. it takes the voinons forever to do the same thing, while there power is redused to a small fraction of what it'snotal firepoer is, and we'er back to the UE killing the fighers one by ono, while the UE is blasting the voinion ship to little to it's asebled parts.
Jubee
I still use 1.0.1. So I am not sure if this goes for 1.0.2. In my version the Voinians only seem to fire their rockets in the front 90 degrees of their ships and not their neutron turrets. This really hurts their attack against shields. It seems to me that in a battle between a UE Capital ship and a Voinian capital ship the safest place for the UE ship is right in front of the Voinian ship. On a side note the Dreadnought only fires its rockets when my shields are down. Voinian fighters pack a lot of pop however 2 hunter missles will disable them every time (killing them at a distance), thus negating their fire power. Also their slow launch times tend to keep them from attacking as a pack which is a further limitation.

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Why are there no maroon ships?

[This message has been edited by Jubee (edited 02-25-2003).]
Kyle Katarn
I used to be completely loyal to the UE, but that changed the more I played the game - too much like the Federation from Nova for my taste. I almost prefer playing Voinian now instead.


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EVula's Lair | Hyperiums | Dreamwave | Apple Computer
:: Yes, I am the former Captain Skyblade ::
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
I used to be completely loyal to the UE, but that changed the more I played the game - too much like the Federation from Nova for my taste. I almost prefer playing Voinian now instead.




What do you mean? UE doesnt have Bureau. If you mean the mess with governing Huron, which is better: administrative mess on one planet or enslaving all races they saw (Hinwar, Durala, and Tientu), gassing everyone on Iri because they resisted, conquering and warring with Emalgha just because they were hungry for resources, and warring with humanity for no reason. The UE may have its faults (thinking on strict trading regulations on Saalian Brandy too), but its better than barbarians that dont even have honor like Aurorans.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Captain Carnotaur
Cade, he just meant that he preferred playing as Voinians. That does not mean that he agrees with their moral code or anything like that; he just likes playing as them. I think the Bureau is scum, but I still prefer playing as Federation. I think the Aurorans are barbaric scum, but I still think their ships are cool (with the exception somewhat of the Auroran cruiser, which is somewhat ugly) and I enjoy playing as them.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
Bomb
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Cade, he just meant that he preferred playing as Voinians. That does not mean that he agrees with their moral code or anything like that; he just likes playing as them. I think the Bureau is scum, but I still prefer playing as Federation. I think the Aurorans are barbaric scum, but I still think their ships are cool (with the exception somewhat of the Auroran cruiser, which is somewhat ugly) and I enjoy playing as them.



Hmm.. Interesting that some comparisons that are being made between the Bureau/Feds and the UEs. I'd always seen the Federation as being a much deeper, seedier organization than the UEs. Everything with the UEs is clean cut and orderly- very bureaucratic, maybe with the exception of D'Erlon, who seems to do whatever, whenever. The only difference between the UEs and Voinians are the humanistic elements to the UEs. They see the good and prosperity that can be achieved, while the Voinians see the wealth and expansion that can be achieved. I always sort of struggled with just what the Voinians were after in fighting the UEs- the game never really gives any sort of indication. It's more of a "They were there.." sort of explanation. The UEs are the same way, though an argument could certainly be made that the UEs are only defending themselves- but then why do they go on the offensive in EVO..? To save the Hinwar/Emalgha, perhaps. But perhaps not. Territory, maybe.

With the Federation and the Aurorans, they are so much further from one another not only in goals, but also in characteristics and appearance.

Interesting stuff, the world of EV/O/N politics.

_bomb

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"I want to tell you about a time I almost died...."
Kyle Katarn
QUOTE
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
Cade, he just meant that he preferred playing as Voinians. That does not mean that he agrees with their moral code or anything like that; he just likes playing as them. I think the Bureau is scum, but I still prefer playing as Federation. I think the Aurorans are barbaric scum, but I still think their ships are cool (with the exception somewhat of the Auroran cruiser, which is somewhat ugly) and I enjoy playing as them.



Indeed, that's the sum of my thoughts. The Voinians are basically space barbarians yet I do prefer playing as them. Perhaps my journey to the Dark Side is underway.

You prefer playing Auroran also, Carno? Same here.


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EVula's Lair | Hyperiums | Dreamwave | Apple Computer
:: Yes, I am the former Captain Skyblade ::
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
Indeed, that's the sum of my thoughts. The Voinians are basically space barbarians yet I do prefer playing as them. Perhaps my journey to the Dark Side is underway.  

You prefer playing Auroran also, Carno? Same here.




Okay, if it you just like to play as them, its OK. I played them too. And their Cruiser rocks. With all armor, speed, and turrets upgrades, it can take down UE Carriers down easily without fighters or rockets, which would stock be a very dangerous thing to do. Your journey to darkness is underway? You frighten me! Hope you wont get too deep in darkness...

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Kyle Katarn
QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
Okay, if it you just like to play as them, its OK. I played them too. And their Cruiser rocks. With all armor, speed, and turrets upgrades, it can take down UE Carriers down easily without fighters or rockets, which would stock be a very dangerous thing to do. Your journey to darkness is underway? You frighten me!     Hope you wont get too deep in darkness...    



Take it easy, man. We can take our computer games too seriously sometimes.



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EVula's Lair | Hyperiums | Dreamwave | Apple Computer
:: Yes, I am the former Captain Skyblade ::
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
Take it easy, man. We can take our computer games too seriously sometimes.  



Oops. Should have included sarcasm tags and rolling eyes smileys. It was ridiculous, so you should have been able to it was just a ridiculous joke.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Captain Carnotaur
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
You prefer playing Auroran also, Carno? Same here.


Not exactly. They're kinda fun to play, but I prefer Feds over Aurorans.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.
Kyle Katarn
QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
Oops. Should have included sarcasm tags and rolling eyes smileys. It was ridiculous, so you should have been able to it was just a ridiculous joke.



Eh, depends. It's hard to determine who's just Override-crazy or sarcastic around here sometimes.

Carno: Bleh, the 'Feds are wicked, man. I can't stand them. Heh.


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EVula's Lair | Hyperiums | Dreamwave | Apple Computer
:: Yes, I am the former Captain Skyblade ::
General Cade Smart
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kyle Katarn:
Eh, depends. It's hard to determine who's just Override-crazy or sarcastic around here sometimes.  

Carno: Bleh, the 'Feds are wicked, man. I can't stand them. Heh.




What do you mean by its hard to determine who is Override-crazy or sarcastic sometimes?

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions
Kyle Katarn
QUOTE
Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
What do you mean by its hard to determine who is Override-crazy or sarcastic sometimes?


Search results from Cap'n Kyle's Dictionary:

Override-crazy: A gamer with deep addiction and dediction to ASW's EVO. Causes mind control in the realm of government service, ship preference, and race opinions. Known to cause cancer is laboratory animals.

Sarcastic: One who obviously or unclearly turns a statement into something other than its original meaning - intended to be funny. Knows the difference between addiction to computer games and good humor.

Er, that was my 1998 edition. The 2003 will be on the market in a few weeks.


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EVula's Lair | Hyperiums | Dreamwave | Apple Computer
:: Yes, I am the former Captain Skyblade ::
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