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21st Century Digital Boy
[edit]Oops - i meant to say high gas prices. oh well, most people know what I'm talking about... [/edit]

I got this in an e-mail today:

> I hear we are going to hit close to $3.00 a gallon by the summer. Want
> gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united
> action. Phillip Hollsworth, offered this good idea:
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around last April or May!
>
> The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
> continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an
> inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, who ever
> thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.
>
> Please read it and join with us!
> By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super
> cheap. Me too! It is currently $1.97 for regular unleaded in my town.
>
> Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to
> think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50- $1.75, we need
> to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
> Marketplace....not sellers.
>
> With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to
> take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down
> is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And we
> can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
>
> How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But
> we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a
> price war.
>
> Here's the idea:
> For the rest of this year, DON"T purchase ANY gasoline from the two
> biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not
> Selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they
> reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to
> have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas
> buyers.
>
> It's really simple to do! Now, don't whimp out on me at this point...keep
> Reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
>
> I am sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to
> At least ten more (30 x 10 =300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten
> More 300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the
> Sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION
> consumers!
>
> If those three million get excited and= pass this on to ten friends
> each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one
> level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
>
> Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people and DON"T purchase
> ANY gasoline from EXXON and MOBIL. That's all.
>
> If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million don't worry about
> It all you have do to is send this to 10 people.... well, let's face it,
> You just aren't a mathematician. But I am... so trust me on this one.)
>
> How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten
> Or more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
> conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't
> Think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can
> make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message
> on.
>
> PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

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Under a Republican government, man exploits man.
Under a deomcratic government, however, it's viesa versa.

[This message has been edited by 21st Century Digital Boy (edited 03-21-2003).]
Stark Bledfast
Of course, all this will do is make the smaller companies run out of gasoline and purchase it from Exxon and Mobile...

But, if you overlook that, then go for it.

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Rick_Hardslab
Buyers already control the market. There is only so many million barrels of gas that the oil companies are willing(able) to sell at a certain price. At that price there is demand for so many million barels. If I dont buy 10 gallons for $1.78 they will still be able to sell 10 extra gallons to someone else for $1.77.

This is basic supply and demand. simple economics. Gasoline is product with an inelastic demand (it has limited equilivent substitutes), and an inelastic supply (it cant be stored and laws limit extra production), which means that it can and will have large price fluctuations. Usually the price is stable because of our friend saudi arabia who fluctuiates their production to maintain an oil price of ~ $20 a barrel.

It does have a few substitutes, if it gets so high its always possible to carpool, or get something that uses a lot less (like a moped)

But the basic rule of economics is that the price will be as high as the collective group of purchasers want it to be. Its called a market. Its completly silly to think you could somehow manipulate it so that it would do anything you want. And then this "I never learned economics" guy goes on further endorses his lack of inteligence by believing a chainletter will be effective.

Anyway, I dont care, if he boycots someone. I and many others will be happy to buy gasoline from them for a penney or two cheaper while he pays a penney or two extra for his.

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Mniot:
> If each of us sends this email out to ten
> Or more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
> conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't
> Think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can
> make a difference.

Hey! This reminds me of when I spammed all my friends with messages saying we could stop the Gulf War, and then we did. Chain emails really work!!!!
Stark Bledfast
QUOTE
Originally posted by Mniot::
Hey! This reminds me of when I spammed all my friends with messages saying we could stop the Gulf War, and then we did.  Chain emails really work!!!!


Heh. Reminds me of why I installed my spam filters.

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General Rak
Of course, the author of the idea is blatantly ignorant of how the oil business works. Boycotting Mobil and Exxon dealerships will only hurt the small time owners of those dealerships, since the big companies will merely sell the oil to other stations if the one's they were selling it to originally go out of business. The only way to hurt the oil companies is by environmental laws, and most of the recipients of the message will be wholly ignorant of that approach or how to do it.

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Nick Lancaster
Seeing as how the 'Great American Gas-Out' was an internet hoax, I can't take this idea - promoted as 'better than' the 'Great American Gas-Out' - any more seriously. I don't know 'Phillip Hollsworth' from 'John Doe,' and if this letter has been through even two or three iterations ... neither does the person who posted this topic.

Remember, the majority of internet hoaxes work on the basis of flawed logic. A leads to B leads to C leads to (drumroll, big finish) Q ... conveniently omitting D through P.

3,000,000 consumers isn't even HALF of the population of the San Francisco Bay Area. Exxon and Mobil won't even miss you.

Barnum said it best, there's a sucker born every minute.


Nick



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"As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress."
-- J. Robert Oppenheimer, American physicist (1904-1967)
Stark Bledfast
QUOTE
Originally posted by Nick Lancaster:
3,000,000 consumers isn't even HALF of the population of the San Francisco Bay Area. Exxon and Mobil won't even miss you.


'Cept the e-mail said 300 million...

But yes, even with an accurate count of the US population, it is still bunk.

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Nick Lancaster
[quote]Originally posted by Stark Bledfast:
'Cept the e-mail said 300 million...  



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"As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress."
-- J. Robert Oppenheimer, American physicist (1904-1967)
Alexis_Stukerov
QUOTE
Originally posted by Nick Lancaster:
3 million by the sixth iteration, which also assumes 100% participation. Not going to happen, so the projected 300 million/eighth iteration is wishful thinking.

Nick  



It also assumes that none of my friends know each other and will therefore not send this chain e-mail to each other. To successfully spread this email to 300 million americans it would take years and hundreds of iterations (which would entail that everyone who recieved this mail wouldn't regard it as the spam that it is). Doomed I tell you, this plan is doomed!

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Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me. We long for a caring Universe which will save us from our childish mistakes, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary we will pin all our hopes on the slimmest of doubts. 'God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist'.
--Academician Prokhor Zakharov,
"For I have tasted the fruit"
SOTF
If you really want to hurt the oil companies, it's quite easy. First, sell your trucks, vans, SUV's, large cars, etc and buy an economy car (this will also screw Detroit), or better yet, go all the way and buy an electric car.

Then, limit your driving to only necessary trips so you use even less fuel, and of course, drive slowly.

That way you can hurt all the oil companies at the same time and save a ton of money on gas no matter what the price does.

At that point, we could pretend that we take the environmentalist nut cases seriously.

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Even slaves live in peace, give freedom a chance
The Infidel
[quote]Originally posted by Rick_Hardslab:
Buyers already control the market. There is only so many million barrels of gas that the oil companies are willing(able) to sell at a certain price. At that price there is demand for so many million barels.[/quote]

A person can only temper their driving needs to a certain extent, the point at which commuting costs more than being unemployed is where the dividing line is.

[quote]If I dont buy 10 gallons for $1.78 they will still be able to sell 10 extra gallons to someone else for $1.77.[/quote]

Or 10 more gallons to someone else for $1.99

[quote]This is basic supply and demand. simple economics.[/quote]

The simple solution is often the most short-sighted one.

[quote]Gasoline is product with an inelastic demand (it has limited equilivent substitutes),[/quote]

Limited? The closest thing in wide circulation is coal, for the ancient railroads! It isn't limited, it is nonexistent.

[quote]and an inelastic supply (it cant be stored and laws limit extra production), which means that it can and will have large price fluctuations. Usually the price is stable because of our friend saudi arabia who fluctuiates their production to maintain an oil price of ~ $20 a barrel.[/quote]

Laws may limit extra production, but they don't say you can't refuse to underproduce.

[quote]It does have a few substitutes, if it gets so high its always possible to carpool, or get something that uses a lot less (like a moped)[/quote]

"Or get something that uses a lot less"? Not everyone would agree that it is necessary to sell their (at high oil prices, worthless) car, in order to buy a moped. Oil can still cost so much that driving a moped around is still rather expensive.

[quote]But the basic rule of economics is that the price will be as high as the collective group of purchasers want it to be.[/quote]

Your forgetting supply-side price control. OPEC is all about supply-side price control.

[quote]Its called a market.[/quote]

Yup.

[quote]Its completly silly to think you could somehow manipulate it so that it would do anything you want.[/quote]

Its completely silly to think that a scheme like this, if pulled off by 300 million people, wouldn't at least have some effect on the market. It is also completely silly to think that the economy cannot be changed by forces operating outside it (Communism, anyone?)

[quote]And then this "I never learned economics" guy goes on further endorses his lack of inteligence by believing a  chainletter will be effective.[/quote]

Did you ever learn economics? Apparently you never took "Advanced" Spelling, which I think would be a prerequisite...

[quote]Anyway, I dont care, if he boycots someone. I and many others will be happy to buy gasoline from them for a penney or two cheaper while he pays a penney or two extra for his.[/quote]

I thought your point is that it would have no effect. Are you contradicting yourself? Do you buy from Exxon-Mobil? Do you seriously notice 10 cent price differences between stations and buy your gas based on that? Gas stations have on their side the fact that it takes gas to obtain gas, making shopping around kinda useless. This makes gas prices for consumers a matter of microeconomics wielded and taken advantage of by multinational corporations.

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In this war, liberty is to be bought so dear as to be almost indistinguishable from slavery.
Soviet mikee
Whoever wrote the topic doesn't understand the oil business very well.

Gas prices go up and down with the price of crude. If it costs more to acquire oil, it costs more to refine it. When that costs more, it costs more to sell it and consumer buys it for that increased price.

A gas company isn't going to buy expensive oil just to give it away for less, moron.
Oh geez... they stopped buy our oil, I guess we need their money so bad we'll lose money for it!

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We gave peace a chance already, instead we got 9-11

[This message has been edited by Soviet mikee (edited 03-22-2003).]
The Infidel
QUOTE
Originally posted by Soviet mikee:
Oh geez... they stopped buy our oil, I guess we need their money so bad we'll lose money for it!


There comes a certain point when, if people don't buy the gas, the company will fail and/or stop production. However, failing a company this way would take cooperation of all other gas companies and a vast majority of the consumers.

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In this war, liberty is to be bought so dear as to be almost indistinguishable from slavery.
Soviet mikee
QUOTE
Originally posted by The Infidel:
<ignored>




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We gave peace a chance already, instead we got 9-11
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