Mac abandonware. Mac abandonware is defined as a game that is altleast five years old and is no longer sold. Yet abadonware is illegal to host on your website. But, still, many sites like <snip> host entire abandonware sections where you can download full version games like Damage Inc, Shadow Warrior, Doom 1 and 2, Wolfenstein 3D and more. So should abandonware be illegal? In my opinion no. Since no one sells the games, no one is hurt when they are downloaded from the net. In fact, people benefite from abandonware, because they can play classics they they would never get to play, and the younger generation gets to play games they never knew existed. Keeping the old games alive, abandonware is right.
-Nate

<edited by shayborg -- Sorry, standing policy is to not post links to abandonware sites. I'm a little late, I know, but I'm on sabbatical, gimme a break ... >
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[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 07-21-2002).]

Hrm. This belongs on Just Games.

iMove

-Gildor

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beyond infinity | #ev3 Quote archive | EV/EVO/EVN Hotlinks Directory
mailto:jon@jonpearse.netjon@jonpearse.net / mailto:py1jop@bath.ac.ukpy1jop@bath.ac.uk
AIM: HEGildor
Some people come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts. And we are never, ever the same.

I think abandonware shouldn't be illegal. I've been hunting round the <snip> and found some games that I thought had been lost through time forever, like <Prince of Persia> and <How the Monkey Island series began>.
These games should be free to let today's younger people aware of landmarks in gaming history.

<edited by shayborg -- same as above>
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You've got a pet halibut?
Yes. I chose him out of thousands. I didn't like the others, they were all too flat.

[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 07-21-2002).]

Furthermore, Monkey Island 1 and 2 (abandonware from <snip> ) convinced me to buy Escape From Monkey Island. LucasArts, Aspyr, etc. benifited from that abandonware; I would not have considered buying Monkey Island 4 otherwise.

I support abandonware, as long as it [the game] isn't being sold or even supported.

<edited by shayborg -- again>
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Microsoft:
"This place is evil, Timothy, but perhaps a necessary evil."
-- Neil Gaiman, "The Books of Magic"
One, Two, Three, Pfhor

[This message has been edited by sinclair44 (edited 07-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 07-21-2002).]

Hi, and welcome to the Ambrosia web boards, nsessing.



To deprive copyright holders of their rights simply because you do not agree with the way in which they are handling their property would be setting a very dangerous precedent. A more reasonable plan, which I believe is being pursued by some groups, is to lobby developers to re-release old software which is not for sale or no longer profitable as freeware.

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David Arthur
davidarthur.evula.net: MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
EV-Nova.net: Yes, the forums are back! | EVula's Lair | EV Nova Survival Guide

But many developers won't let people have their 'beautiful creation' for free, I would be willing to bet. Even if they can't sell it.

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Microsoft:
"This place is evil, Timothy, but perhaps a necessary evil."
-- Neil Gaiman, "The Books of Magic"
One, Two, Three, Pfhor

Fine idea to re-release games. If companies would do that, I would no longer support abandonware. But, since many of the companies dont exist anymore, that is a problem. And lets face it. Im not going to buy a ten year old B&W game, but I will download it for free. And the companies know that. They stand to lose money from that. While the games are good, most games Im not going to buy. And since they are already on the net, most people looking for the game would just download it instead of purchasing the game legit.
-Nate

Exactly, and they are perfectly within their rights to do so. When you write a book, you are under no obligation to publish it, or to publish more than a limited number of copies, or to only give it to your friends, or whatever. The same level of control covers computer software.

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David Arthur
davidarthur.evula.net: MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
EV-Nova.net: Look, a three-headed cunjo! | EVula's Lair | EV Nova Survival Guide

Although most companies don't appreciate the downloading of some games that have since gone open source, it's the only facet of "abandonware" I support.

Still, it brings a tear to my eye to see these games from long ago...

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Sonderlich Die, welche sich "die Guten" heissen, fand ich als die giftigsten Fliegen: sie stechen in aller Unschuld, sie lügen in aller Unschuld; wie vermöchten sie, gegen mich--gerecht zu sein! ... Die Dummheit der Guten nämlich ist unergründlich. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra (7.19)

Man, this site is mint! Tons of games that I still consider quality. I wouldn't pay for them, but they're still fun to play. Thanks for the link, Mordok!

<edited by shayborg -- yet again>
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This message has been brought to you by Chestnut

[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 07-21-2002).]

First off, please refrain from posting any more links to abandonware sites. Regardless of whether downloading abandonware should be allowed or not, as David Arthur pointed out, to do so is most likely illegal. Thanks, folks.

That said ... I think the best solution here is to allow abandonware to be downloaded for a nominal fee or, if the author allows, for free. Unfortunately, until this is put into practice, there really is nothing to do; downloading abandonware is most probably violating copyright law. It's kind of like looking for a song from an old CD you can't find in a store any more -- sure, you could find it online if you tried, but you wouldn't want to do it.

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Visit my EVO web site at http://www.evoverride.com!
"What a piece of work is man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?" -- Hamlet, Hamlet, II.ii

Visualise the issue as the difference between trying to distribute Maelstrom and trying to distribute Aperion. Both aren't terribly profitable anymore, but only one will get you in trouble. There are plenty of open source games out there; just make sure to find out which ones first.

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Sonderlich Die, welche sich "die Guten" heissen, fand ich als die giftigsten Fliegen: sie stechen in aller Unschuld, sie lügen in aller Unschuld; wie vermöchten sie, gegen mich--gerecht zu sein! ... Die Dummheit der Guten nämlich ist unergründlich. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra (7.19)

The original Monkey Island games are far from abandonware .
<sarcastic edit>600th post!</edit>

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luck is beating the odds, bad luck is when they are the odds of having something bad happen to you.

[This message has been edited by SuperNova (edited 07-22-2002).]

I have looked around LucasArt's site, and there is *no* place that they show that Mokey Island 1 or 2 were ever out for the Mac, and they don't sell them for either platform now.

Therefore, if it's legal or no, Monkey Island 1 and 2 for Mac are abandonware.

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Microsoft:
"This place is evil, Timothy, but perhaps a necessary evil."
-- Neil Gaiman, "The Books of Magic"
One, Two, Three, Pfhor

Late last year I legally purchased the DOS version of The Secret of Monkey Island and the Macintosh version of Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge, the former on a PCGamer CD, the latter direct from LucasArts by mail order. The games are definitely still around.

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David Arthur
davidarthur.evula.net: MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
EV-Nova.net: Look, a three-headed cunjo! | EVula's Lair | EV Nova Survival Guide

Then "Lucasart" should inform whatever website, that lets people download Mokey Island, that they should pull back the software.
I think that every abandonsite, would heed that advice.
Iv'e been at the <site name snipped> a few times, and I also gave them a game or two. Anyways, they got a request, once or twice, from companys that still sold the software, and they pulled it back right away.
Soo...I think abandonware is okay.

<edited by shayborg -- sorry Ope, site names are censorable too ...>

[This message has been edited by Opalius (edited 07-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 08-04-2002).]

After 5 minutes of searching, I could not find the Mac Monkey Island (either one) for sale on the LucasArts web site. There also was no mension of the Mac versions of Monkey Island 1 or 2 in support.

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Microsoft:
"This place is evil, Timothy, but perhaps a necessary evil."
-- Neil Gaiman, "The Books of Magic"
One, Two, Three, Pfhor

Yes, I seem to remember that there wasn't any mention of them on the web site, but I was able to get the Mac Monkey Island 2 ordering by telephone.

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David Arthur
davidarthur.evula.net: MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
EV-Nova.net: Look, a three-headed cunjo! | EVula's Lair | EV Nova Survival Guide

Some of the games at the ______ are still being sold, like SimCity 2000. I haven't seen it lately but I'm sure I remember it being sold in stores when I visited New Zealand. I also see Maelstrom is available for download, even though Ambrosia is still selling it.

I wonder if the people at ______ research the games first, to see if they are still being sold.

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This message has been brought to you by Chestnut

I'm pretty sure it's the shareware version they have

I believe Maelstrom has been more or less open-sourced, and that Maelstrom 3.0, the version available for free that was ported to OS X, is fully legal. Ambrosia continues to sell the game because, from what I've heard, there are still people willing to purchase it.

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"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway." -Crow T. Robot
Just Games • The Devil's Dictionary

You'd have to be a twit to buy an open source game directly from the company for street price.

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Sonderlich Die, welche sich "die Guten" heissen, fand ich als die giftigsten Fliegen: sie stechen in aller Unschuld, sie lügen in aller Unschuld; wie vermöchten sie, gegen mich--gerecht zu sein! ... Die Dummheit der Guten nämlich ist unergründlich. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra (7.19)

Especially if people have used that source to make better versions of the game (With netplay, internet high scores list, for linux, macosx, etc.) that are available for free. Heh. Time to open-source Aperion!

As for abandonware... it is illegal. It is perfectly right for a company/person to say people can't get a game for free they no longer sell. Although I would really like to be able to get the mac MechWarrior 2. I bought a copy many many years ago... Last I saw it (A year or more ago I'm sure), it was so trashed on the backside it didn't even work! I'd love to be able to play that game again....

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/admirald
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one"
-Thomas Jefferson

I'll trade you my copy for a G4.

Divals

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"Silly rabbit, Kicks are for trids!" - ME
mailto:micahg@microserve.netmicahg@microserve.net , SGE, My Webjournal

Anyone have Widget Workshop?

Now, before you get riled at me for advocating piracy: I have the original disks on hand. I got it as a birthday present in 3rd grade. I'll be glad to show them to you. But they're dead, useless, stale. And I miss it so! It was like the breadboard for the 10 year old.

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Sonderlich Die, welche sich "die Guten" heissen, fand ich als die giftigsten Fliegen: sie stechen in aller Unschuld, sie lügen in aller Unschuld; wie vermöchten sie, gegen mich--gerecht zu sein! ... Die Dummheit der Guten nämlich ist unergründlich. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra (7.19)

did i hear widgit workshop????? I have (had? i dont know, been sooo long....) that on my old mac preforma 6200cd PPC.. that thing drove me nuts, i only compleated half of the challanges.. but hey, i was 8 or 9 at the time! As for abandonware, it is illegal, but if it's not being sold, who is it hurting? Anyone here ever play the OLD game Shagow Keep? it's impossable to buy these days (i'd like to see if anyone here can even find it mentioned somewhere..... ) but i thought it was a great game at the time. now, i'm not gonna go spend 10 dollars on a black and white RPG even though it was a great game 7 years ago, but given the chance to play the full version for free (well, the version i had said it was shareware, but it wasn't limited..) i'd gladly take it.

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Aren't you ripping people off when you give them a penny for their thoughts and they give you their 2 cents?

I have two. Two for me! None for you!

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./admiraldennis
D.E.N.N.I.S.: Digital Entity Notorious for Nocturnal Infiltration and Sabotage
The Source Cod - Nothing Fishy / admirald.sourcecod.com - Coming Soon

[This message has been edited by Admiral Dennis (edited 08-06-2002).]

Doom and Doom 2 are technically not abandonware yet. They are still supported by Id Software. If you downloaded a full version of it, it's warez.



I don't remember a Shadow Keep. Do you mean Shadowgate?

I also have Widget Workshop on my Performa 6200CD...I would still play it, if it were on another computer. The 6200CD was a fluke, it should have never been made. Mine is supposed to be 75MHz, but it seems as if it runs no more than twice as fast as my 25MHz Performa. It's also a hive of system problems and memory errors.

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I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.
1000 posts as of 8.04.2002 10:22 PM (1:22 ASW time)

[This message has been edited by -esw-dragoon_77 (edited 08-06-2002).]

no, it was Shadow Keep... Created by Glenn Seemann, who also created Mac Vidio Poker, Catacombs, and, with the help of David Bourg, created Oberin (www.oberin.com)

Hey, anyone here got catacombs? i lost my copy a while ago, and cant find it on happypuppy.... if ya got it, can ya please send it to me?

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Aren't you ripping people off when you give them a penny for their thoughts and they give you their 2 cents?

I have Widget Workshop and i would be glad to give you my copy if you would show me some proof of ownership... i have sent you a mail at spamguy@mac.com, please contact me.

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'So long and thanks for all the fish' - Douglas Adams
To boldly go where no man has.....Look a TEDDY!!