Well, I thought I'd try humans for a change, and found my ass being royally kicked since I've been up to level six on b-net.
Orcs were easy; it was always getting grunts, gettings shamans, and you were fine. And you got bored after a while. Humans seem a little more versatile, but their versatility never comes in use, as advanced players are mowing me down before I can even get knights or anything.
Or is it just a stupid imbalance, what also would explain that there are few human players in the higher ranks on the ladder?
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
Full Version: War III - Human tactics?
I've found that the humans are just too plain weak. They have no major strengths, but many deficits (no über-powerful unit). If all the sorceresses could cast blizzard, it would be a different story...
Try Night Elf and Undead, they're very fun to play. The Orcs are the amazingly powerful, and great fun to play to. Each race though has its own strengths (i.e. - Frost Wyrms, movable buildings, raising dead, shamans/taurens, etc...) and weaknesses/counters for each of these. The humans seem to have been an afterthought to designing these great other races.
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Eytee
farpoint@mac.com
Try Night Elf and Undead, they're very fun to play. The Orcs are the amazingly powerful, and great fun to play to. Each race though has its own strengths (i.e. - Frost Wyrms, movable buildings, raising dead, shamans/taurens, etc...) and weaknesses/counters for each of these. The humans seem to have been an afterthought to designing these great other races.
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Eytee
farpoint@mac.com
QUOTE
Originally posted by Eytee:
I've found that the humans are just too plain weak. They have no major strengths, but many deficits (no über-powerful unit). If all the sorceresses could cast blizzard, it would be a different story...
I've found that the humans are just too plain weak. They have no major strengths, but many deficits (no über-powerful unit). If all the sorceresses could cast blizzard, it would be a different story...
Humans are not weak. Mass teleport + inviz unit = gg It hasn't failed me once I put it into motion.
As for surviving up to that point....
Find a town set up that works for you. Don't ever have more than 500 gold in the bank (but of course you know that)
I find priests with innerfire sorc with slow....with a mixture of footmen, riflemen, and DMK and the AM w/ WE are a force to be reckoned with...
but it always comes down to micro... I haven't found a strategy in this game that can't be broken down....but I usually try to aim for a decent mix group of fighters and spells that work well together. I won't build knights until I'm getting ready to teleport. I find that 2-4 steam tanks are always good to have
...it's not the best strategy but it's damn fun. ------------------
QUOTE
Originally posted by Kuji:
... I haven't found a strategy in this game that can't be broken down...
... I haven't found a strategy in this game that can't be broken down...
So you've figured out a counter to the huntress rush?
But yes, I agree with what you said. Using humans is about using their versatility, and that means EACH unit you use is important. A group must be composed carefully, and you have to figure out how to counter who with what. Mix groups up well, use knights to engage melee units and back them up with priests and mortar teams, and so forth.
A mages teleport ability can be priceless, although my personal favorite hero is the Paladin.
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I may not have the strength to hold you up/ but if you fall/ I will fall under you/ and make it as soft as I can
Getting footmen, (with defend or whatever it's called) than Mortars, Gyro's, and Knights, and upgrading everything constantly, usually works for me. But than, I haven't been human since I was level 5 or so...
As for getting bored with a race, I almost always go random. Only exception is when I'm feeling like, for example, smashing things with Infernals.
In my opinion, a truly good player shouldn't need to choose his/her Race or Map to win - he/she should be good with everything, on every map, and win even if he/she is the underdog. [/useless ramble]
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[This message has been edited by MadFax7 (edited 09-10-2002).]
As for getting bored with a race, I almost always go random. Only exception is when I'm feeling like, for example, smashing things with Infernals.
In my opinion, a truly good player shouldn't need to choose his/her Race or Map to win - he/she should be good with everything, on every map, and win even if he/she is the underdog. [/useless ramble]
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-MadFax7 mailto:MadFax7@hotmail.comMadFax7@hotmail.com AIM: MadFax7
"iMac. uDie." ©
EV Nova Hompage | EV Nova Addons Page | EV Developers Corner
EVula.com | EV-Nova.net | w00tWare/NovaTools
[This message has been edited by MadFax7 (edited 09-10-2002).]
I find the random system somwhat annoying, I choosed random as race 5 times in a row. And I got human all the times! *ggrr* and I lost all matches too! *grrr*
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To think that I have built so much, so carefully, on a foundation made of quicksand
The ASW Warcraft3 Clan | My propaganda site | The pop-pop diary site! pop-pop.b3.net
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To think that I have built so much, so carefully, on a foundation made of quicksand
The ASW Warcraft3 Clan | My propaganda site | The pop-pop diary site! pop-pop.b3.net
In team games humans are rather good. I would recommend a tower or 2 to ward of rushers, then get an AM and get mass-rifleman. Rush to sorcs and support your allies. A very potent combo.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
Eytee: humans have no uber-units? what are you talking about? i mean come on! steam tanks? knights? gryphon riders? those are all very powerful units when fully upgraded, especially steam tanks.
Humans are just as well balanced as any other race, you just need to know how to use them. i find that a high-level MK is an unstoppable force. avatar ownz j00
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
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Humans are just as well balanced as any other race, you just need to know how to use them. i find that a high-level MK is an unstoppable force. avatar ownz j00
QUOTE
Posted by begemotike:
So you've figured out a counter to the huntress rush?
there are plenty of counters to the huntress rush. get footman for a meat shield(upgrade their armor) and riflemen(with upgraded attack) and you can take out huntresses pretty easily, esp if you have a couple towers. plus, upgrading riflemen attack and footman armor are the same upgrades for my favorite human unit, the steam tank! So you've figured out a counter to the huntress rush?
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
The Vortex Web Page! My upcoming TC plugin for EV Nova. The Vortex Forum--Everyone is welcome to come, register, and post here.
Yeah, humans are pretty good later on in games (a group of steam tanks is just unstoppable - just watch all those tiny melee units hitting on the tanks while they're blasting the whole enemy town ) But it's just a hassle to upgrade to those levels human units are useful at, as you need about a billion different buildings for too few too weak units.
But I like killing supposedly 'superior' races, so I'll stay human for a while - Orcs were simply too powerful and too easy to win with.
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
) But it's just a hassle to upgrade to those levels human units are useful at, as you need about a billion different buildings for too few too weak units.But I like killing supposedly 'superior' races, so I'll stay human for a while - Orcs were simply too powerful and too easy to win with.
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
[quote]Originally posted by Planet_Buster:
there are plenty of counters to the huntress rush. get footman for a meat shield(upgrade their armor) and riflemen(with upgraded attack) and you can take out huntresses pretty easily, esp if you have a couple towers. plus, upgrading riflemen attack and footman armor are the same upgrades for my favorite human unit, the steam tank!
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I may not have the strength to hold you up/ but if you fall/ I will fall under you/ and make it as soft as I can
there are plenty of counters to the huntress rush. get footman for a meat shield(upgrade their armor) and riflemen(with upgraded attack) and you can take out huntresses pretty easily, esp if you have a couple towers. plus, upgrading riflemen attack and footman armor are the same upgrades for my favorite human unit, the steam tank!
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I may not have the strength to hold you up/ but if you fall/ I will fall under you/ and make it as soft as I can
QUOTE
Originally posted by Joveia:
In team games humans are rather good. I would recommend a tower or 2 to ward of rushers, then get an AM and get mass-rifleman. Rush to sorcs and support your allies. A very potent combo.
In team games humans are rather good. I would recommend a tower or 2 to ward of rushers, then get an AM and get mass-rifleman. Rush to sorcs and support your allies. A very potent combo.
hehe, I recommend a paladin rush.... get workers to build up your alter quickly and you and a friend should spit out a paladin asap....then all you have to do is attack and heal....haven't tried it myself, but it seems like a viable rush that I've been kicking around in the back of my head..... oh, how I wish I can play that game...it's been over a month and I'm going through some wicked withdrawl problems...
QUOTE
Originally posted by Begemotike:
So you've figured out a counter to the huntress rush?
So you've figured out a counter to the huntress rush?
If I ever complained about a huntress rush I apologize.... I must have been on crack or something because that rush was the first one to be broken down
But I'll still complain about the people that play on line...I've been reduced to playing war2 on my less powerful mac.... So I still get my fill of the bnet rejects.... but I just bought my motherboard and video card for the PC I'm planning to put togther... War 3 is a month or two away
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[This message has been edited by Kuji (edited 09-09-2002).]
[quote]Originally posted by Kuji:
If I ever complained about a huntress rush I apologize.... I must have been on crack or something because that rush was the first one to be broken down I mistakenly thought you did, when I made my first post, then realized that hadn't been ever anything you mentioned. I got you confused with a whole lot of other people who DID complain to me, and whine, and snivel, and otherwise carry on in a most horrible fashion! Now that it is no longer invulnerable, I get my kicks running around topics and rubbing it in. I'm so mature.
As for me, no WC III probably until some time next year. Aiie! Oh well.
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I may not have the strength to hold you up/ but if you fall/ I will fall under you/ and make it as soft as I can
If I ever complained about a huntress rush I apologize.... I must have been on crack or something because that rush was the first one to be broken down
I mistakenly thought you did, when I made my first post, then realized that hadn't been ever anything you mentioned. I got you confused with a whole lot of other people who DID complain to me, and whine, and snivel, and otherwise carry on in a most horrible fashion! Now that it is no longer invulnerable, I get my kicks running around topics and rubbing it in. I'm so mature. As for me, no WC III probably until some time next year. Aiie! Oh well.
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I may not have the strength to hold you up/ but if you fall/ I will fall under you/ and make it as soft as I can
The best way for a human to win in solo is to go AM and double-barracks footman rush. Find the enemy quickly and use defend against any towers he has. Then slice him to pieces. You should have way more units than him and w/ micro unless he is very good, you will win. If you do it really early the NE won't have a hunters hall and archers die so easily.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
But is this whole damn game only about rushing? I just played three games, and lost all three, because I got huntress rushed the first time, damn ****ing undead worker rushed the second time, and then footman rushed the third time.
It's so boring! Is it just winning at all costs? Am I missing something here?
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
It's so boring! Is it just winning at all costs? Am I missing something here?
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
QUOTE
Originally posted by Clueless:
undead worker rushed the second time
undead worker rushed the second time
Never seen that one before. Do you mean with the opening ghoul or with the acolytes too? Acolytes are the best for rushing but they're weak.
The best rush in the game, is the militia rush. Build a town hall next to the enemy and convert everyone to militia. It's impossible to defend against.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Joveia:
The best rush in the game, is the militia rush. Build a town hall next to the enemy and convert everyone to militia. It's impossible to defend against.
The best rush in the game, is the militia rush. Build a town hall next to the enemy and convert everyone to militia. It's impossible to defend against.
What if you're another human?
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-MadFax7 mailto:MadFax7@hotmail.comMadFax7@hotmail.com AIM: MadFax7
"iMac. uDie." ©
EV Nova Hompage | EV Nova Addons Page | EV Developers Corner
EVula.com | EV-Nova.net | w00tWare/NovaTools
Humans of course, will be able to fend it off
Well, that is to say if they spot it coming before it's too late.
Of course, I don't experience this often, mainly because I stopped playing solo ages ago. Too many hackers, many of my games were d/c hacks and I know some of my enemies map hacked by viewing the replays (what they did was of no concern, the fact is, you CANNOT select my town hall when it's in the fog of war after 10 seconds.)
That is also to add, most of my games do not end in rushes.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/10/02: corporate america is bad.
Well, that is to say if they spot it coming before it's too late.
Of course, I don't experience this often, mainly because I stopped playing solo ages ago. Too many hackers, many of my games were d/c hacks and I know some of my enemies map hacked by viewing the replays (what they did was of no concern, the fact is, you CANNOT select my town hall when it's in the fog of war after 10 seconds.)
That is also to add, most of my games do not end in rushes.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/10/02: corporate america is bad.
Good news, blizzard banned 40000 hackers from WCIII ladder for a week. If they continue hacking they are permabanned. Finally, something to threaten hackers with.
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Kinescope: heh heh... that just inpired me to a potential new quit message
Kinescope: Read error: Connection reset by illiteracy
Kinescope: no offense to those who cannot read, of course....
QUOTE
Originally posted by Joveia:
Too many hackers, many of my games were d/c hacks and I know some of my enemies map hacked by viewing the replays (what they did was of no concern, the fact is, you CANNOT select my town hall when it's in the fog of war after 10 seconds.)
Too many hackers, many of my games were d/c hacks and I know some of my enemies map hacked by viewing the replays (what they did was of no concern, the fact is, you CANNOT select my town hall when it's in the fog of war after 10 seconds.)
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Kinescope: heh heh... that just inpired me to a potential new quit message
Kinescope: Read error: Connection reset by illiteracy
Kinescope: no offense to those who cannot read, of course....
40,000?! Out of how many total players?
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I don't know what I'm talking about.
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I don't know what I'm talking about.
Am I missing something here?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Your name says it all, Clueless!
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"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
[/B][/QUOTE]
Your name says it all, Clueless
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"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
[quote]Originally posted by Talon Karrde:
Good news, blizzard banned 40000 hackers from WCIII ladder for a week. If they continue hacking they are permabanned. Finally, something to threaten hackers with.
I'd be pretty surprised if it was 40,000. When you think about it, that's a pretty damned large number of people who don't deserve to live.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/10/02: corporate america is bad.
Good news, blizzard banned 40000 hackers from WCIII ladder for a week. If they continue hacking they are permabanned. Finally, something to threaten hackers with.
I'd be pretty surprised if it was 40,000. When you think about it, that's a pretty damned large number of people who don't deserve to live.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/10/02: corporate america is bad.
[quote]Originally posted by nikebro123:
Your name says it all, Clueless
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
Your name says it all, Clueless
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Eat, sleep, eat, sleep…
Blödpinsel / Blood Würst
Joveia: nope, its 40,000. trust me.
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
The Vortex Web Page! My upcoming TC plugin for EV Nova. The Vortex Forum--Everyone is welcome to come, register, and post here.
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
The Vortex Web Page! My upcoming TC plugin for EV Nova. The Vortex Forum--Everyone is welcome to come, register, and post here.
Hey leave me alone with my extremely lame and poor jokes...
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"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
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"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
QUOTE
Originally posted by Clueless:
But is this whole damn game only about rushing? I just played three games, and lost all three, because I got huntress rushed the first time, damn ****ing undead worker rushed the second time, and then footman rushed the third time.
[b]It's so boring! Is it just winning at all costs? Am I missing something here?
[/B]
But is this whole damn game only about rushing? I just played three games, and lost all three, because I got huntress rushed the first time, damn ****ing undead worker rushed the second time, and then footman rushed the third time.
[b]It's so boring! Is it just winning at all costs? Am I missing something here?
[/B]
stop playing single player, that is mainly about rushing. The true greats are able to stop them but most players, despite any illusions they may hold, are not true greats. If you hate losing to a rush, build up a rush force and wait, if you play it right, youll be much stronger than him when he comes by. Try 2v2 for a game, rushers there but a bit more strat involved since a single player is easy to stop in a rush. Try a 3v3 game for a true test of skill, since most people refuse to rush for what may happen. That early in the game there are usually towers and other nasty surprized for those who rush early in 3v3. 3v3 is my personal fav.
For humans 1v1, the perfect strat is to make an altar. Make it fast, use a lot of peasants and make it faster than any other race can. Send that AM to where you think the enemy is, if you find him fast, then you have won. Two ways to go here, either put a point in elementals or in blizzard. If you get blizzard, blizzard his workers on the mine, scattering them. If you get the elemental, take out his construction of his altar, or barracks, depending on what he gets. After taking down the construct, if youre fast enough to catch it being built, move on to killing all his peons. After that its a victory indeed.
IF you dont catch the building being built, then its a bit more difficult. Blizzard and try to kill as many workers as possible, making sure to make a barracks or two at your base. Youre now distracting the enemy badly, and he cant really do much other than pray. Get farms and a ton of footies. If enemy hero comes out, have him chase you away and then attack his base from a different angle. By this time, hes so offset that he cant recover, send in a group of 6 footies and you have it.
Finding enemy base is key, this is called a hero rush, and it works best with humans.
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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.
[This message has been edited by Desert Fox (edited 09-13-2002).]
QUOTE
Originally posted by Planet_Buster:
Joveia: nope, its 40,000. trust me.
Joveia: nope, its 40,000. trust me.
Ok, you might want to check your sources however.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.
hmm, youre right. i couldve sworn they said 40,000 somewhere though... maybe it was the sugar playing havoc with my mind. i dunno.
[edit]oh yeah, and i just got the living crap wailed out of me yesterday by like 4-5 steam tanks because i attacked his base and got beaten down and towers do nothing against steam tanks. anyone who says tanks arent an uber-powerful unit is a fool. theyre the best human strat that i know of.[/edit]
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
The Vortex Web Page! My upcoming TC plugin for EV Nova. The Vortex Forum--Everyone is welcome to come, register, and post here.
[This message has been edited by Planet_Buster (edited 09-13-2002).]
[edit]oh yeah, and i just got the living crap wailed out of me yesterday by like 4-5 steam tanks because i attacked his base and got beaten down and towers do nothing against steam tanks. anyone who says tanks arent an uber-powerful unit is a fool. theyre the best human strat that i know of.[/edit]
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Don't go to school to learn that 2+2=4. If you do you're missing the point. Go to school to learn how to add, then figure out that 2+2=4.
The Vortex Web Page! My upcoming TC plugin for EV Nova. The Vortex Forum--Everyone is welcome to come, register, and post here.
[This message has been edited by Planet_Buster (edited 09-13-2002).]
Steam tanks roxx0r.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.
[quote]Originally posted by Begemotike:
Well, I totally agree actually. I just like asking that question of people, because when WC III first came out, I spent hours arguing with people that no, the huntress rush was NOT unstoppable. And now, I see some of them even using my tactic to counter it. Soo... ha! to those people. Even though Kuji wasn't one of them.
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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.
Well, I totally agree actually. I just like asking that question of people, because when WC III first came out, I spent hours arguing with people that no, the huntress rush was NOT unstoppable. And now, I see some of them even using my tactic to counter it. Soo... ha! to those people. Even though Kuji wasn't one of them.
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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.
In one remarkable game I used about 8 rifleman and a few sorcerers to kill the huntress massing forces of 2 good NE players. I found that rather amusing and my opinion of the rush has changed. Very dangerous, very hard to defeat on the field without appropriate 3rd tier backup, but also possible to defeat nicely.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.
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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.
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