... or are all the people on battle.net FREAKING EXPERTS!

God, I can't play anything without getting steamrolled by the world's biggest army five seconds into the game. I wanna go back to Starcraft... at least it runs flawlessly on my computer.

So much the "cool" new matching system.

Currently I think I'm level 2 thanks to one game in which both opponents lagged out, and another in which I won thanks to gaining the upper hand very early on (on a stroke of inspiration I blizzarded in the enemy peasant line, putting them back in the stone age temporarily and allowing me and my ally to come in later with superior armies).

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

It's just you.

Seriously though, I only play 3vs3 and 4vs4. A rush is much less likely to succeed in team games. I suppose you may have a serious unlucky streak going, where you're getting only very sucky players on your team... Of course, it also might be that you suck. (But given time and effort, that can certainly change.)

Just curious, what realm are you on?

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-MadFax7 mailto:MadFax7@hotmail.comMadFax7@hotmail.com AIM: MadFax7
"iMac. uDie." ©
EV Nova Hompage | EV Nova Addons Page | EV Developers Corner
EVula.com | EV-Nova.net | w00tWare/NovaTools

I recommend single player games over team games any day of the week. First off, partners always lag off or quit. 2nd, you don't know who you are getting paired with. 3rd, it comes down to team work, and usually when I try to organize or at least try to compliment my partners, they end up playing like they were in a singles match. Therefore getting rolled over like a chump when the other team comes over our bases in unison. (Even at meium levels like 7-11.) Oh well.

I also recommend just joining custom FFA games. You get to play the game like it was meant to be played. With strategy...knowing when to attack and pull back. YOu really see the importance of keeping tabs on the enemy, and you learn when to and when not to attack. I love em. The last couple games I've played at my friend's place has been 4 way ffa's and I won both probably just jinxed myself right there.... Oh well.

*edit* I think if you do well in FFA's you'll do great in single or team games. I started getting better when I played these games....


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[This message has been edited by Kuji (edited 09-16-2002).]

It's just you
Look here

Though some of my allies in arranged isn't very good I've kept playing with them, that's why I have such bad record

<edited by shayborg trying to fix link>
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To think that I have built so much, so carefully, on a foundation made of quicksand
The ASW Warcraft3 Clan | My propaganda site | The pop-pop diary site! pop-pop.b3.net

[This message has been edited by shayborg (edited 10-04-2002).]

I hear you. I'm at level 4 on 1v1, and I can only seem to beat people at Level 2 or below. I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. If I meat an opponent on even terms, I lose. I guess I don't manage my units as effectively as I could, but I don't know how to do it any better! Oh well.

mac_tim on Lordaeron.

Tim

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—= Timinator =—

Go team games. 3v3 is the best in my opinion. If you are good, and you have a leader in the trio, then you are golden. Its been getting better for me, most my allies nowadays are not quitting at the onset or lagging out. Im a lvl 9 myself with a losing record, but im on a hot streak and will be out of that slump soon. The way people in single player win so many games is that they rush. Plain and simple. Rushing is the way of life for a single player game. The best way to go is to build up a rush force yourself in your base, sparing some res for a tower, and waiting for the enemy. That way not only does he meet up with an equal force, hes gotta compete with a tower. Also the workers do a bit more than just work. Undead workers can fight (ghouls can at least) while the human peasants become militia and orc peons jump into the burrows and throw lethal spears at the enemy. Also, if you are fighting human/orc/undead, chances are hes gonna rush you with melee units. As orc, the absolute best counter to this is spiked barracades. The footmen/grunts/ghouls hit buildings, they get hurt, they stand still and get smashed by arrows from towers and burrows, they fight your units they get pelted with arrows and take damage from the units. If fighting NE, forget about the barracades, since most NE units are ranged. Instead focus on making 4-5 towers. Get some protection against enemy siege and you are good to go. 4-5 towers take down archers and hunts like they were nothing. Hopefully this helps a bit.

In team games, watch out for dual NEs. They commonly like to double up the hunts and rush the hell out of one person. If you make your base right and your allies charge in to defend you, you will do fine and most likely win it since after they waste everything on hunts, they will be hurting bad. A great idea is to attack the hero. Most NE players hate losing heros (as do most players) so they will try to retreat, or even better, use a TP to get back to base. If they use a TP, youve staved off the attack and wasted 350 gold for them if they decide that TPs are important and get another. Just a few suggestions to help you out.

As always, build FAST. The faster the better. Its hard to knock someone out if they are so stagnantly set into their base that its impossible to take em all down before losing all units. Undead are best at this. When undead, make almost ALL your ziggurots into spirit towers. This is great defense and disheartens all would-be attackers. I even get scared off of a undead base if I see a lot of spirit towers. Dont go all out, since killing towers isnt difficult, just annoying. Earthquake, shockwave, and siege weapons are excellent at taking down towers. In fact, most hero ultimate spells (cept for a few) do wonders for knocking out towers.

As an intro to rush, humans are best. They can get their barracks up faster than you as well as their hero. As human, go archmage and hero rush the enemy. Blizzard the workers and run around a lot. There are tons of desperate ways to stave off the enemy hero. Keep on this and youll get a lot of footmen midbase before they can even erect the most basic of defenses.

Just trying to help you out, use my ideas at your own risk.

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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.

All those ideas are quite good...

I would stipulate that rushing is actually the most effective in 4v4, not immediate rushing but half way into middle game. Most players have eased off a bit and are going into teching... towers become less effective the more players you have rushing you at once.

Maps like Timbermaw hold are perfect team maps and anti-rusher.

I found that on random multi, about 90% of my teammates are complete idiots. So I really try to avoid playing warcraft except with friends.

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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.

You only find idiot allies? At the beginning of all my random matches I let my allies know Im good and if they ask what to focus on, I tell them. I use them to fill the holes in my army, while my army nicely complements his forces. Best time to attack is right after you waste their army or even when Joveia said, mid game. At 15-20 mins my army is ready for battle and im creeping like crazy, to help make up for my lack of creeping earlier on. When an ally suggests a rush, the other is likely to think otherwise. Work with that, adamantly refuse to rush, force your allies to build up and counter. The first successful attacker is usually the one that wins a team match. Successful means you destroy a lot if not all. Killing expos is considered a successful attack since the enemy is most likely not expecting it at first, they will teleport in at random times, leaving your forces to slaughter the enemy who hops in at random times. Ill continue this after class.

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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.

The one anonymous-match 3v3 game I played I actually won because I had one expert on my side who knew what to go for. Our opponents, after gaining the upper hand, made a bunch of exactly the wrong units. It was slightly amusing.

Anyway, Tthe thing is, me and two friends have been playing arranged team off and on. It is so annoying to be trying to learn the game and have battle.net put you with two people who will rush you with several screen fulls of army right away and kill you. I've been practicing against AIs to get my rushing up to snuff, but everything always falls apart when I get back on battle.net. I've gotten to the point where I can almost continuously create an army of archers and huntresses with night elves from the moment my ancient of war finishes, but it never does much good because I simply don't have enough time to click everything I want to click. It's a real problem on a slower computer, and I often find myself way behind because I don't have time to place buildings and micromanage as much as I should.

I can do alright in a one on one though, on account of the fact that I can keep track of everything that's going on. I pretty much always win against my friends, but throw in extra players and my tactical insight's history. I also do better if the person I'm playing against is in the same room.

It's all really annoying.

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

I guess I never occupy the 'dominant' position in the team.

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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/11/02: ignorance should be regarded as evil.

[This message has been edited by Joveia (edited 09-19-2002).]

Ha! We just played a game against a few real jerks and lost as usual, but they did do one funny thing and we survived for much longer and probably made them worried a little.

So purple, being an idiot, decides to offense tower one of my allies. Now this might have won us the game, except that my other ally wasted a lot of resources by sending low level troops to help with the towers. In any event, I easily destroyed everything purple was working on back at his base and even killed most of the reinforcements from the other two players with starfall. I believe that at this point, if yellow had been helping me, we could have just barely survived the waves of reinforcements and gained the upper hand.

As it happened, my offensive was shortlived, and then my 12 ancient protectors died along with my rebuilt hero group, though not before doing a lot of damage to an enormous joint attack force. With red swearing up a storm the whole time.

But we're getting better.

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

To LoneIngadzra

I am a adament NE player and I have to say that NEs are not for rushing. I play on 4 v 4 games all the time. For NEs you need to upgrade your archers and huntresses attacks as fast as posible. Dont worry about defense until you have upgraded. Ask your allies to cover you while you do this. An army of huntresses and archers for support is as good as anything. The Moon glave upgrade is crucial. One thing you can do to win is as soon as one of your teamates is rushed by a combined force, have everyone else warp in with the hero and soon troops. Then emidiatly countattack. It works against even the best players (except the best players never rush). Hope this helps.

A Spisak


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“Tell the angel who will watch over your life to pray now andthen for a man who, like Satan, believed himself for an instant to be equal to God, but who realized in all humility that supreme power and wisdom are in the hands of God alone.”
-Edmond Dantés
"The Cont of Monte Cristo"

eh, this is off topic to the extreme but...
1.) You can get 4 huntresses in the 3rd part of the first night, this is well enough for a rush
2.) The best players hero rush and keep a constant battle at your base, this is the "zen" of warcraft 3.

On topic. LoneIgadzra: Just play a couple games on team mode. The ladder seems really hard at first, but you get used to it fast. Remember to watch replays as well.


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It's Difficult To Comprehend How Insane Some People Can Be. Especially When You're Insane.
just games or death, and were all out of death!

On a deeper level in line with your expert statement...

If you hadn't noticed, there's a very flourishing REPLAY trade that's going on.
http://www.progamer.ru/war3/replays.html

In SC and so forth you had to learn the ropes (until they insituted the replay thing in that too). Now you can learn how the 'pros' do it by simply watching a 10 minute replay, I do often.

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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/24/02: Human society is a complex metaphor for slavery.

thats a good link, thanks.


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It's Difficult To Comprehend How Insane Some People Can Be. Especially When You're Insane.
just games or death, and were all out of death!

Perhaps rushing is the wrong word. What I mean by rushing is watching as your base is smashed by twice as much tech as you have. I've pretty much figured out that rushing in the traditional sense in WCIII is death a sentence.

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

My friend and I finally did it! We won by rushing to tech, just like everyone else! Oh, the joys of being a conformist! *does a dance*

Though of course the fact that we were able to pick off the enemy's twelve 'lusted tauren with impunity helped. Love that 'wall of skeletons' effect...

It was mildly embarassing, though, that I spent forever looking for the last burrow before realizing I could see it all along after my friend's computer disconnected (which sucked majorly).

Ah well, you can't have everything. Oh, our opponents weren't world class jerks for a change; they kept reciting Beatles songs.

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

we all live in a yellow submarine....

Good one. Teching is my fav. An interesting addage to 2v2, me and Payback have found a nice niche for that, he goes undead and masses ghouls as I super tech my orcs. He'll have a massive group of ghouls and his two heros, ill have one hero and 2 towers. Moron enemy attacks separate, we eliminate em easily. Good enemy attacks together, and we are hard pressed but manage to destroy his army with only losing several ghouls. By this time I have a fort, and my totems are coming up. Shamans training and mastery coming, im set to go.

Lesson: one person stays at tier 1 and masses units to protect the other person's tech. If enemy attacks, your gold as you have decent enough def to knock them back or out. If enemy sticks back, make a shade (or scout) to see whats up and wait for the teching person to roll out the tier 3s before making a strike.

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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.

Exactly! Works like a charm if your allies mass huntress while you tech, too .

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Pez's Profile Refresh no. 14
Pezimist : your favorite luxemburgish WC3 champion !
"Pez are those crappy refillable plastic candy dispensers, but you may call me Pez anyway..."

If I could ask a question, D-F, how many crypts are required to mass ghouls? I tried that once, with bad results.

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Non cognosco quo modo dicere linguam latinam bene.

first off, dont do it for too long, as ghouls are probably the weakest attack unit in the game (they are workers after all). Dont EVER make 1 of the producing buildings. Make 2-3 crypts for that, and if you are planning on skellies, get 2-3 temple of the damneds. 2 is just if you plan on making them as main troops or need fast production, 3 is if you are focusing on it. Payback makes 2, says it is quite necessary.

Payback also says once the tech is reached, haul ass to tech your units. Says make 2 slaughterhouses for aboms.

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We were the first political party to advocate renaming the Washington Monument the Big Stone U.S. Penis and putting big, orange foam testicles at the bottom.

I started with battle.net about 2 days ago. I have some questions for anyone or the sagely DF to answer.

1. How do I advance in rank? I've been all over the map from 1 to 4 and inbetween and back again. Is one the lowest? What decides rank? One's win/loss ratio? Also...on the last 4 and 4 I run, my entire team was ranked one and the losers were ranked 2. If rank 2 is better than one, why the hell do the losers have a better rank than us, the winners?

2. How does one defend vs. tower rushing? This happened to me in a 4 on 4 game, and to a teammate in a different 4 on 4. I beat it with some trouble, due mostly to the fact that the enemy had very little unit support and let me build 4 artillery units to unleash hell with. Soon afterward my team won the game by default (the other guys all quit). I guess my question is not how to beat a tower rush, but how to see it and stop it in the first place.

3. Any good tips for playing the Night Elves? I almost always play them. I tend to build 2 Ancients of War, 2-3 AP's, a Hunter's all, etc. I start with one group consisting of a mix of archers, huntresses, and 2 heroes (priestess of the moon and demon hunter), and go around killing stuff to gain exp and support my teammates. Ultimately, I always create 2 groups: one with a priestess of the moon and archers, the other with huntresses and a demon hunter. I usually use these to attack a target together, or to attack/defend, or to use both for defense.

Now, I've had success with this, but not every time. In fact, I've suffered 3 or 4 defeats where I was attacked almost immediatedly from the outset. So I have to think this isn't a perfect approach. Any ideas would be appreciated, especially ideas on ideal units to focus on that I'm neglecting.

4. Any good tips for playing with the humans? They're my second favorite race, but I've yet to win a game with them. What are good units to focus on for them?

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[This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 10-15-2002).]

[quote]Originally posted by UE Crusader:
I started with battle.net about 2 days ago. I have some questions for anyone or the sagely DF to answer.

1. How do I advance in rank? I've been all over the map from 1 to 4 and inbetween and back again. Is one the lowest? What decides rank? One's win/loss ratio? Also...on the last 4 and 4 I run, my entire team was ranked one and the losers were ranked 2. If rank 2 is better than one, why the hell do the losers have a better rank than us, the winners?
[/quote]

You get experience for each victory. More on this at www.battle.net
[quote]
2. How does one defend vs. tower rushing? This happened to me in a 4 on 4 game, and to a teammate in a different 4 on 4. I beat it with some trouble, due mostly to the fact that the enemy had very little unit support and let me build 4 artillery units to unleash hell with. Soon afterward my team won the game by default (the other guys all quit). I guess my question is not how to beat a tower rush, but how to see it and stop it in the first place. [/quote]

Active scouting is the key to success. Usea worker or an unit.
[quote]
3. Any good tips for playing the Night Elves? I almost always play them. I tend to build 2 Ancients of War, 2-3 AP's, a Hunter's all, etc. I start with one group consisting of a mix of archers, huntresses, and 2 heroes (priestess of the moon and demon hunter), and go around killing stuff to gain exp and support my teammates. Ultimately, I always create 2 groups: one with a priestess of the moon and archers, the other with huntresses and a demon hunter. I usually use these to attack a target together, or to attack/defend, or to use both for defense. [/quote]

I usually have 4 - 6 archers at night. I usually get DH or KoTG. After that I creep and get huntress.

EXP

Mass huntz

Upgrade etc


[quote]
Now, I've had success with this, but not every time. In fact, I've suffered 3 or 4 defeats where I was attacked almost immediatedly from the outset. So I have to think this isn't a perfect approach. Any ideas would be appreciated, especially ideas on ideal units to focus on that I'm neglecting. [/quote]

Almost all NE players run away when their hero dies, targer heroes and strong units. Or you can always try to ambush spell casters [quote]

4. Any good tips for playing with the humans? They're my second favorite race, but I've yet to win a game with them. What are good units to focus on for them?[/quote]

Though question...

Human armys generally needs to be a good mix of foot sorc knights. I usually get knights and sorc or foot and sorc

[/QUOTE]



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www.warcraft.b3.nu

My advise to you for NE play is to start out with a PotM and some archers then go and creep a few mines. Get trueshot with the PotM. The archer's piercing attacks do extra damge to creeps.

A Spisak

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“Tell the angel who will watch over your life to pray now andthen for a man who, like Satan, believed himself for an instant to be equal to God, but who realized in all humility that supreme power and wisdom are in the hands of God alone.”
-Edmond Dantés
"The Cont of Monte Cristo"

Pople on battle net rush all the time

What I do is since the beginning sneak around to find another mine. Then I have two bases If one gets assaulted I can use the other one to defend it

Try Games that dont really respect the rules of Warcraft

I love:

PEON WARZ

TOWER DEFENCE

SHEEP TAG

RISK

AND UNLIMITED GAMES (infinite gold, food, wood....)

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Cooldude

They rock, and you can chat a bit at the beginning for secret plans and stuff.

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Cooldude

The one thing that sucks about war3, is the chat!

You can't tab your latest commands

No copy paste

The fact that people doesn't chat anymore, I mean just join a custom game and all you will see is:

Dude has joined the game
Someone has joined the game
etc


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www.warcraft.b3.nu

[This message has been edited by Desert-Rat (edited 10-26-2002).]

So much for the "dawn of a new era." This is discouraging gameplay at its best folks. My friend and I just played a series of arranged team games wherein we did our best to swamp the enemy with upgraded huntresses. The first time it looked like we were winning, except that my demon hunter was totally nullified in every engagement and eventually they showed up with a superior army that was under construction even as we tried to counter attack. It killed us. I am frankly baffled as to how it is possible to get that many units that quickly. Every cent I got was spent on either another huntress or upgrading them, yet they did totally better. The second time we played, they just showed up at my base with a ghoul rush that we couldn't beat.

So all in all I hate battle.net's matching service and wish it would go to hell. I am sick of playing people who are ten times better than me every time.

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"Turn towards the trees!"
"What trees? There's ******* trees EVERYWHERE!!!"
- A friend and I sailing one lazy afternoon. I was out of my mind with exasperation at my friend's steering ability.

Actually, if someone techs and the other doesn't tech, then if they attack (what you suppose you plan for) you will have to survive without your allies help, because he is teching. If help comes, it will be anemic.

I prefer pairing races that are good defenders if I am teching. This is also why I think that Orc and NE are the worst combo race, because the NE have no defenses, while the orc have quite good ones.

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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.
opinion change 9/24/02: Human society is a complex metaphor for slavery.

I like that combo, because the the night elf player doesn't have to worry about strong melee attacks wiping out weaker units like archers with the orc army helping.

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"Turn towards the trees!"
"What trees? There's ******* trees EVERYWHERE!!!"
- A friend and I sailing one lazy afternoon. I was out of my mind with exasperation at my friend's steering ability.