If you wish, you may read the full article that I am using and talking about here.

A major United Nations conference on racism is in the works, but already issues have been brought out.

First off, the issue of international law and slavery:



Now, why would the United States not what that? Are we ashamed of our past with regards to slavery? Well, we damn well should be.

The second issue is more common, and has been discussed for years:



I included this mainly for people who read this topic. I have net entirely formed an opinion yet on this, so I will refrain from stating my thoughts. However, consider this: I am descended from people who fought for the Confederate States of America. Though I do not know if they were slaveholders, they defended a renegade nation. Should I pay reparations for this?

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"This is where dad buried the little raccoon. I didn't even know he existed a few days ago and now he's gone forever. It's like I found him for no reason. I had to say good-bye as soon as I said hello. Still... in a sad, awful, terrible way, I'm happy I met him. *Sniff* What a stupid world." - Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
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There was slavery in the Union states too.

Reparations are rediculous. It is insane to think any kind of debt can be repaid for slavery or other such attrocities.


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mikeeJ | Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy | zergess@yahoo.com
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus

What about us?

You are not part of any special interest groups, no one cares about you guys anymore I guess...

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mikeeJ | Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy | zergess@yahoo.com
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus

Speaking of which, you don't see Native Americans asking for all of their land back... payment for crimes against a person's great grandfather is silly. It isn't making the actions carried out any better, it just seems to be a final "Ha, you were wrong and now you pay" in a literal sense. Written apologies or recognition in some public place would seem much more fitting in remorseful terms then paying the present-day ancestors of slaves.

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So crazy, he just might work

In the history of the United States, people were wronged, but money won't make it a right.
The United States destroyed priceless native american culture and history, and it can never be restored. The United States wasted millions of lives in slavery, and they can never be given a second chance at life.
The only way to pay back the ones who were wronged is to make the future right.

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Don't call me Batman EP
on Twang
Rocks Have Cells!

Instead of wasting money on repaying old debts,
why not spend them on helping people CURRENTLY
in need?



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This post was brought to you by:
-~= Stormmind (:=~-

I, first of all, say that they should go along with labelling slavery like that. No why? Because it's absolutely right! Slavery IS a crime against humanity! We were not created to just go around enslaving people for our own good.

Secondly, I also say that we should support labelling slavery like that. I mean, why not? What do we have to loose? The civil war was a looooonng time ago and racism has almost completely and utterly ended. The very act of not supporting this shows that we are prideful and we don't want to hurt our own self image and other peoples image of us.

I really don't see why there's such a big debate over this. It's an open and shut case thing. And okay, so let's say that that definition of slavery is wrong. Then what is slavery? A small little injustice that we should just forget about? No, it's a major wrong and an entire war was caused because of slavery issues.

Even if we did ruin other peoples images of us a bit, then us supporting that would actually clear up some of our previous wrongs. We would be showing to everyone that we have changed since the civil war and we aren't trying to cover things up and act like slavery never existed.

I also see that quite possibly in the future, that slavery will once become a major issue. And maybe because of anti-slavery acts like this one passed right now we may be able to stop furthur bloodshed in the future. Look at EV. The entire galactic civil war was caused by slavery. Now I know that's not much of an example, but it gets the point accross that in the future we will truely forget about slavery and once again be lured into the state of mind that slavery isn't bad, when it really is.

Well, that's my 2¢.

-Captain Carnotaur

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.

Living in the depths of the southern states, people used to often ask me how I would have reacted to slavery during the Civil War. Personally, I totally agree with Carno's answer: It really is a crime against humanity. We were all created equal, and putting black people into forced labor just because of their skin color is downright rediculous. Now if I were living in the Civil War, I would have definately fought on the Confederate side, but one has to remember that the southerners had many more reasons to fight, and slavery was actually a minor issue to them. Look at Robert E. Lee: An incredible Christian saint and military hero. He was totally against slavery, but guess what side he fought for? (Even though Abraham Lincoln offered him leadership over the entire Union Army in early 1861)

Anyhow, I do believe slavery is wrong. I have many friends that are black, and I treat them just as I would a white person.


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~Captain Skyblade
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President of the Corsair Development Team
Corsair Homepage | Corsair Web Board | Starbase Delta

Screw Reperations, the first part of the topic really bothers me.

Why dosn't the UK, Spain, and Portugal want to agree that Slavery is a crime against humanity? They don't practice it anymore, I don't see anything about it that would go against what they're doing in their countires.

True, they were big players in the Slave Trade. But almost EVERY SINGLE CULTURE, from Sumeria to Persia to Greece to Rome to Africa, has practiced slavery. If other countries can call it a crime, I don't see why they can't.

The Article dosn't give reasons for these three countries not to do it...anyone have a article that does?

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Bah bah black sheep, have you foot and mouth? Yes sir, yes sir, three organs full!
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In short, for similar reasons to the US.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/...4189554,00.html


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Yvan Eht Nioj.

From the article posted above:



I think that declaring something in the past illegal should not be done . I know that there is a United States law against it, which may explain why they are against it. However, it should be declared illegal now (slavery, that is).

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"This is where dad buried the little raccoon. I didn't even know he existed a few days ago and now he's gone forever. It's like I found him for no reason. I had to say good-bye as soon as I said hello. Still... in a sad, awful, terrible way, I'm happy I met him. *Sniff* What a stupid world." - Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
Don't Hate Me | Unofficial Boards

[This message has been edited by Starkiller (edited 05-22-2001).]

Declaring something a crime against humanity is a meaningless gesture. Stop slavery in Sudan or shut up, that's my motto.
These African nations are trying to lay the groundwork for sucking money out of developed nation as "reparations" for their past injustices against africans. Stupid, wrong, and most of the money will find its way to Switzerland along with said African leaders.

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"He who feels punctured must have been a bubble."
-Taoist saying
"A fool ponders strange things, but a wise man ponders common ones."
-Confucius

Yeah. And another reason Southerners fought for the Confederates wasn't because they were for slavery; it was because they wanted to fight for the south. They were quite patriotic. But anyway, I was getting a bit off topic there.



Correcto. Know why; because it ain't going to hurt anyone. For instance, let's say that slavery just ended and there was no real law against it. Know why we should declare it illegal? Because it could easily start reoccuring in the future, as I said in another one of my posts.



Probably true, but who knows, maybe some of them actually do want to stop slavery. As for declaring it a crime being useless, refer to my other post. In the future, and slavery is once again active, what will our descendents say to try and stop it? It's wrong? It's bad? No, they will refer back to this time and point out the events of the past and say that slavery is a crime against all humanity. That will win some points.

However, you are true in one respect; words won't win it all. You have to go out and fight it. I think that the UN should do a lot more than just sit around declaring that it's bad; we need to ACT. We need to MOVE.

Oh well, just another one of my 2¢.

-Captain Carnotaur

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.

I disagree. Does the fact that a papal council in the middle ages issued a ban on translating the bible out of latin convince you to burn your copy of the king James? No, it doesn't. Just as the fact that Hammurabi's code says that you have a right to kill the architects son of a house collapses on your own convince you that that is right. People don't respect other people's laws just because they were declared. Nor do you refer to Hammurabi's code when saying that murder is wrong, you use some shared moral code or logic, rather than an ancient document. Laws only have force if they come from a source which has either moral or physical force, and the UN has neither.

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"He who feels punctured must have been a bubble."
-Taoist saying
"A fool ponders strange things, but a wise man ponders common ones."
-Confucius

Hmmmmm... Good point. However, it wouldn't hurt either way...

But yes, I do totally agree that the UN has no moral or physical force. Read my "Is the UN a Failure?" topic.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.

You have a point yourself, that such a declaration can't hurt, but I think it's bad to let people who don't have to deal with a situation and aren't planning on doing so issue pronouncements, and it's especially bad to attribute moral authority to such a pronouncement. Basically, I have a problem with the UN in general.

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"He who feels punctured must have been a bubble."
-Taoist saying
"A fool ponders strange things, but a wise man ponders common ones."
-Confucius

Yes, I agree. Oh, and if you hate the UN, read me topic.

Back on subject, I say the UN should invade Sudan and get rid of the all the human rights abusers. Sure, I know that is impossible, but Sudan just ticks me off.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the EV Chronicles.

I do hope that was a typo.

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...And then God hath spake:
"Question that which ye hath been told, my child. Should thou continue upon thy journey without resupposition, it would be a most perilous journey indeed..."

Hehe...Interesting to note that you realize that. But one thing that has always been on my mind is this: If you read throughout the books of Exodus and Numbers (just about everything in the Pentateuch [sp?]), you'll note that God clearly gives commands to the Children of Israel on how to handle slaves. God allowed Israel to keep slaves from the neighboring countries who had gone over the line, and it really is interesting if you think about. This does NOT mean I think modern-day slavery is wrong. I think blacks should be treated just as well as anyone else...


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~Captain Skyblade
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President of the Corsair Development Team
Corsair Homepage | Corsair Web Board | Starbase Delta

are you dense in the head!?! haven't you ever heard of a "hate crime"? how about that one kid who was pistol whipped to death for being gay? haven't you ever seen the movie American History X? don't you watch the news and see the palestinians and the israelies killing each other? how can you say that racism "has almost completely and utterly ended" are you freaking stupid? how do you explain, then, the fact that "jew" has become an insult, how the KKK can march down pennsylvania blvd. and profess their traditions of hate and violence against african americans, catholics, and jews? how do you then explain the rise of the neo-nazi movement in the united states, who by the way practice the same crap the KKK does. did you not think? what about the way people insult mexicans in california, calling them "border hoppers" and "wetbacks", or how african americans call whites "honkey's" or "crackers". there is racism in every city, and it has not dissapeared like you say. since i am a person, like you, i take offense at racism of all sorts. get your facts straight before you spout of about racism being "utterly ended"

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President of Antihero Destruction Co. and Puke & Vomit Resources
HOLY %$#$, I'VE BEEN CENSORED!!

[This message has been edited by antihero (edited 05-23-2001).]

I agree with all you people who are against reparations (sp?). Come on, Africa, it was about 100 years ago. Not much of a problem anymore. There are lots of problems that need to be taken care of right now.
Starkiller, never feel guilty for something you've never done. What's past is past, the wars of long ago should never be restarted again.

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yeah, considering that a LOT of people came in well past the Civil war, and their descendants are forced to pay.

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Pascal - A programming language named after a man who would turn over in his grave if he knew about it.